I think so far this is what people wanted: end the status quo and apply shock therapy.
His supporters hope that in the long run the economy will become independent and the country would come out of the never ending crisis. My guess is that everything will simply end up owned by private interests and while (best case scenario) the economy will do better, people will suffer even more.
The Argentinian economy will not do better, only the wealth of the neocolonial compradors will, and the wealth of their Global North capitalist masters.
That’s what I meant, it will do better “on paper”.
Hard to call that worse than the mess they are in
They should have played hardball with the rapacious IMF instead of licking its boot.
ugh welcome to earth where the only way to have a healthy “economy” is for people to suffer. but we cant seem to just live in peace and help eachother out without monetary benefits. so people are forced to suffer because of greedy bastards.
LETS GO WE NAILED IT GUYS
Yeah, because Friedman’s free market shock doctrine shit just isn’t working.
Free market regulating itself is the next bullshit argument
They privatized many of the highways and you have to pass through toll booths every so often as ownership changes. These people provide no service, there are just taking the money. Same with much of the transit—many buses and trains are privately (mafia) owned.
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Well, I guess we’ll see. Currently I don’t really see how privatizing everything and opening real estate market to foreign investors helps poor children but maybe it will. My guess is that when the private corporations take over everything they will squeeze even more money out of the poor but maybe the wealth will somehow trickle down. It’s definitely an interesting experiment. My other guess is that if this fails all the libertarians will say that it’s because he implemented all the policies they like so much wrong. If he succeeds I’m definitely voting for the right wing nutjobs in the next elections.
The historical record shows that there are no maybes about this. It’s obviously not an “interesting experiment.” There’s no sense in giving these rhetorical inches while they’re taking miles.
What historical record? Can you point to another country taking such a extreme turn to the right while being in similar situation? And not being met with sanctions like in Afghanistan for example. I’m genuinely curious.
Can you point to another country taking such a extreme turn to the right while being in similar situation?
While that isn’t what I was talking about, Weimer Germany is the canonical example of a similar situation, but there are many examples.
What I was talking about is the historical record of neoliberal shock therapies, which Naomi Klein documented well.
Shock therapy in Russia after USSR breaking up, maybe?
That was more extreme, since it was not a transition from left-wing liberal democracy to right-wing liberal democracy, but from bureaucratic planned economy to a pretense at liberal democracy.
Still some examples may apply.
Say, if things state-owned or state-managed in Argentina now get privatized, one can look at the specific mechanism and whether it’ll be similar to what happened in Russia.
I guess the right wing theory is that the president makes Argentina a great place to do business, business people rush in, and wealth trickles down.
But, that “trickle down” idea doesn’t ever seem to have actually worked anywhere. Maybe the best Argentina can hope for is that at one point when the economy is booming, the working people suddenly form or join unions and the companies decide it’s too risky / expensive to leave, so they negotiate with those unions.
OTOH, these days it’s so easy to move corporations around to wherever the laws are the most corporation-friendly. So, even if somehow the new president does make corporations want to do more business in Argentina, it’s hard to see how the people of Argentina will really benefit.
I would agree if Argentina wasn’t so fucked right now. The goal is not to make Argentina great but to get out of crisis. I think what can happen is that all this drastic cuts and price hikes will lower inflation and stabilize the economy. With inflation under control and normal interest rates people will be able to start saving money again, take out mortgages and import goods. This could improve their situation if public services survive but my guess is they will end up fully owned by foreign capital at the end.
I think what can happen is that all this drastic cuts and price hikes will lower inflation and stabilize the economy
It might, or it might not. The thing with inflation is that it’s based on people’s expectations as much as anything else. People have to believe that inflation will go away before it goes away.
The new president has one thing going for him, which is that he’s not a continuation of the previous administration. That means there’s a chance that people will believe that he’s actually making serious reforms. If they’d stuck with a prime minister who was the finance minister when the inflation was going nuts, I don’t think anybody would have believed that things were going to improve, which meant they wouldn’t improve.
But, that “trickle down” idea doesn’t ever seem to have actually worked anywhere.
If you look at Switzerland, it does, just takes long.
That’s not what’s happening in Switzerland. Switzerland just has a weird niche as a tax haven.
I meant “last few centuries” by “long”, in that context your answer is invalid.
In that case, by the standard of the last few centuries, the Swiss are especially poor.
If he succeeds I’m definitely voting for the right wing nutjobs in the next elections.
Uh, I saved this comment of yours for that one sentence.
My views are rather libertarian, but I wouldn’t trust most of the real life libertarians (too trusting into thousands of shitcoins or excited with reading sci-fi and busy writing and discussing articles about mechanisms of anarchy in the ancap meaning of the word).
However, if it comes to you voting for the “right wing nutjobs”, please remember that GOP in USA is not libertarian in any way, no more than Ukraine’s ruling party which uses the word sometimes.
I don’t live in USA. I would be voting for Konfederacja in Poland which has similar, libertarian ideas as Milei. They are always dismissed as idiots (and I tend to agree) but if Milei fixes Argentina I’m ready to eat crow and give them a chance.
Well, for the next 10-20 years I doubt I’ll have the option of participating in a real vote, not without a revolution. So wishing you well and wishing Argentinians well, what is described should work in theory, but it’s just too sharp a turn.
I would be voting for Konfederacja in Poland which has similar, libertarian ideas as Milei.
They are in a solid chummy political party with neonazis and monarchists for years. This alone should tell you what kind of libertarians they really are.
how privatizing everything and opening real estate market to foreign investors helps poor children
the wealth will somehow trickle down
Spoiler alert: it never did.
He did say he would apply shock therapy to the economy. He never mentioned if the economy would come out alive.
Tankie much?
This is just the price the poor are going to have to pay while the rich get to loot the country.
“some of you may die, but thats a sacrifice im willing to make”
The poor are kept poor by being unable to even buy a pc… 200% import tax on electronics is the WORSE YOU CAN DO TO NORMAL PEOPLE.
Because inflation has absolutely no bearing on poor people’s silver linings.
Who could’ve guessed that a rightwing government wouldn’t solve their issues (which were originally caused by rightwing policies)?
No, you are lying. Argentinas problems do not originate from right wing policies but from over protectionism
which were originally caused by rightwing policies
Such as…
The implosion of Argentina is a very complex issue, but, essentially, the country allowed itself to be informally dollarized and ceded control over most of its industries to international (read corporativist) interests. When Perón restructured the country, it was done with a limited scope and with relatively short term changes, causing their economy to collapse again later (it doesn’t help that Brazil, a powerful potential ally, had undergone a rightwing U.S.-backed coup at the time). Then, the whole Falklands/Malvinas war happened, all rightwing bullshit, and the country still hasn’t bounced back.
Don’t forget that every time a right-wing government get to power, they open up a new credit line with the IMF and leave the next government and the population on debt.
You just reminded me of an art display that went up in a park in Buenos Aires when I lived there. Basically the park is oriented around a fountain with a large circular area of brick around that, then pathways that go to the corners and sides of the square (ie to the sidewalks).
They put up a series of walls in that outer circle that told the story of the Malvinas conflict. What stood out to me was that they referred to the UK not by any name or country reference, they were just called “The Enemy”.
People remember and they don’t forgive.
Always take that sort of thing with a grain of salt. The UK is by no means innocent, but Argentina had no real claim to the Falklands - they were the invaders. Can’t really forgive others for a crime you committed.
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Easy. You sing “Yay Boo”
The air in Buenos Aires aside, It’s really a very clean country.
“In a storm…”
If this keeps up I’ll have to stop shitting myself.
Don’t you dare
I’m guessing it will not stop him from shitting on his citizens.
You can’t stopp the plopp
Install a bidet already, instead of smearing your shit all over your cheeks
Who would’ve known, the man that made it so people can get their salary in jugs of milk is a complete idiot.
Not correct. He’s trying to undo fifteen years of lunatic tankies stealing money. The country is BANKRUPT. two times over. He’s doing his best. Even tho he has old fashioned dumb religious ideas, you do NOT know what one hundred percent inflation EACH YEAR FOR A DECADE does to people. Argentinians are now waiters in Mexico and Ecuador… They fled because of Kirchner making the country into a mud pool of corruption and freeloaders
It’s beginning to look like Venezuela but with libertarians. It’s quicker than I thought.
Venezueal is a locked country that’s sanctioned to hell, Argentina is about to break incompetence records not ever seen before
If you think that you are under 20 or have been living under a rock.
Hell no. For Argentina to look like Venezuela, inflation must be 100,000%. I wish I was exaggerating. 1 USD is 40 trillion of the old Venezuelan currency pre-Chavez, the one the government has cut 9 zeroes to hide inflation ever since.
Of course, that doesn’t mean that the situation in Argentina isn’t looking dire.
Argentina isn’t sanctioned at all lmao. Thinking Venezuela is a failure is exactly what the US and its allies want you to think with the ridiculous amount of sanctions. Can’t have people see Socialism succeeding.
Argentina has been doing the venezuela way for fifteen years, WHY DO YOU THINK IT’S SO BAD NOW?
If you have never lived in a place with a DECADE of ONE HUNDRED PERCENT INFLATION PER YEAR, you should just shut up already.
That will make EVERYONE poor. No joke!
I lived in Argentina for five years. I’ve spent much time since then trying to convince people in the US that you have more rights and freedoms in Argentina. This might be changing now.
Look, theres a lot of reasons this guy sucks.
Increasing the costs of two things that are causing the most damange to our planet is not a reason to criticize him tho.
sure it is. removing subsidies on commodities like gas doesn’t change the demand for gas, it just puts more of a burden on poor people, and doesn’t matter at all to the rich who use it most. that path will only lead to backlash against green policies in general, see the yellow vest protests. in order to reduce consumption you actually need to reduce demand by giving people sustainable alternatives.
Demand elasticity is a thing. Demand won’t shrink by the same ratio prices rose after removing subsidies, but it will shrink.
Response to that I can’t predict, but there are places in the planet where prices are lower because of the general poverty of population and the need to still sell it, and places where prices are even higher, but most of the population can’t afford fuel, I can’t name.
EDIT: This was incomprehensible, sorry. I meant that in the long term prices for the consumer are going to become closer to what they were with subsidies, likely, thus the real prices - lower. The question is how bad it gets before that happens.
How the fuck do they afford subsidies? Why do you think they have been in this crisis for 30 years? It is a well educated and fairly modern society. But if you think socialist programs can be paid by borrowing money or printing money indefinitely and won’t result in cronic poor outcomes then you have little understanding of basic economics.
This guy isn’t a climate activist. It’s funny to see the price of fuel going up with a climate denier.
Maybe he’s an eco terrorist in deep cover?
It would be a nice plot twist in a movie.
hopefully circumstances worsen quickly enough that it’ll be noticable for everybody so that the general public can clearly identify it as a direct consequence of this maniac being elected. If its deteriorating too slowly people might just not notice it as much and might go along with all the coming explanations ( probably immigrants, leftists, blahblah). If there’s a quick look into the abyss people might wake up and get into action.
“He also devalued the peso by 54 percent, putting the government’s exchange rate much closer to the market’s valuation.”
It looks like the situation was worse all this time. The government just stopped pretending.
If there’s a quick look into the abyss people might wake up and get into action.
And vote for the politicians that gave them slow decline again…
Or, at any rate, someone else rather than this specific one giving them either the fast or the slow decline. At least there’s a chance, then, that people vote for something other than that.
Regularly worse is still better than significantly worse.
The thing is, in weak democracies there’s rarely “someone else” that will fix things. Ukraine got super lucky with Zelensky but even he looked like a total crook when elected. Pretty much only populists can win elections in countries like that and it’s impossible to tell if the populist is saying populist things to get rich or to actually try fixing things. Most of the time they just want power and money and people that take the risk and vote for them have big chance of getting if more fucked.
This is the standard political cycle in Argentina, like a giant pendulum. Someone starts screaming about how they will fix everything and gets voted in. Their incompetence makes things worse and the cycle repeats with someone new.
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Totally out of context title
Tankies love it.
GASOLINE was soooooo cheap with subsidies. It needs to quadruple again, at the very least. REMINDER THEY DO NOT HAVE ANY CRUDE!
Fifteen years of left wing policies printing money have left the place in literal SHAMBLES.
The official exchange rate was half of the real one.
That is NOW being FIXED.
If you do NOT KNOW ANYTHING, SHUT UP PLEASE (this is meant for the other commenters, not you)
Finally someone that understands the real situation of my devastated homeland. Liberal or not (I don’t follow any political view, I hate them, I follow the common sense and empathy) this guy was the ONLY person with enough balls to change the devastating history and future of my loved country. I don’t know what’s going to happen, I not sure what this guy is going to do in the future, but at least he is doing something. To understand the level of crisis, that’s more than enough.
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This is what all people that can’t have a personal point of view of live tends to do. Make life simpler, choose one side or the other. You know, like religion. This is absolutely what people need to stop doing if you want to advance as a society and stop pushing other to do so. Like you.
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I am not surprised that Lemmy is a cesspool of leftism
Then why are you here?
Ah yes democracy
I don’t have problems with political views but This post is pure propaganda. Argentina is trying to get up after 100 years of fake socialism that set it to the disaster it is today in all gubernamental institutions
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Mr. Galli has been trying to cut back without making life worse for his two daughters, who are 6 years and 18 months old, including switching to a cheaper brand of diapers and racing to spend his Argentine pesos before their value disintegrates even further.
“I prefer to tell you the uncomfortable truth rather than a comfortable lie,” he said in his inaugural address, adding this past week that he wanted to end the country’s “model of decline.”
The economic turmoil paved the way to the presidency for Mr. Milei, a political outsider who had spent years as an economist and television pundit railing against what he called corrupt politicians who destroyed the economy, often for personal gain.
The previous leftist government had used complicated currency controls, consumer subsidies and other measures to inflate the peso’s official value and keep several key prices artificially low, including for gas, transportation and electricity.
With the chronic high inflation, labor unions often negotiate large raises to try to keep up, yet those wage increases are quickly eaten up by sharp price hikes.
“I always say that we are at university, and every day we sit for a difficult exam, every five minutes,” said Roberto Nicolás Ormeño, an owner of El Gauchito, a small empanada shop in downtown Buenos Aires.
The original article contains 1,384 words, the summary contains 216 words. Saved 84%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Makes sense, if stuff is subsidized, the government has to pay for it. If the government doesn’t have money to pay for it, they’ll just print it out of thin air, devaluing the currency (and thus taxing the working class).
There’s gonna be a lot of pain for Argentinians in the months and years to come, hopefully it’ll all be worth it…
Austerity measures and privatization are basically never worth it.
It’s worth it for the capitalist class that is buying the country’s commons at fire sale prices.
No, you’re right, let’s better keep our ruler class’ pockets full. That won’t bite us in the ass.
Then tax or seize their wealth. The loss of subsidies will specifically hurt the poorer much harder than the wealthy. The wealthy will just push their increased burden from loss of subsidies off onto the poor like they always do.
Neoliberalism is a zombie ideology. Read a book: The Shock Doctrine
Printing money only devalues a currency when there’s no taxation to subsequently shred the money.
Second Thought: Why the Government has Infinite MoneyPrinting money is like borrowing it from the taxpayers.
If there’s hyperinflation, it means that said loan isn’t being paid back, far from it actually.
There wouldn’t be any money for taxpayers to pay if the government hadn’t first printed it and spent it on goods and services, eventually ending up in the paychecks of taxpayers .
Hyperinflation is now well understood, and printing money is not, on its own, the cause.
PEGS Institute: What Caused Hyperinflation In Weimar, Zimbabwe And Venezuela?Of course it wouldn’t be there, I’m not saying that the government spending money at all is bad.
What is bad is the government spending too much money, so much that they introduce way too much money into the economy, making the rest worthless.
Obviously it’s a combination of factors, but printing (and then introducing) a shitton of money will have very direct effects on the value of the currency.
There wouldn’t be any money for taxpayers to pay if the government hadn’t first printed it and spent it
Money naturally emerges in all civilizations, you don’t need a government to centrally manage it. You lack basic economic understanding.
Oh I see, you’re a bitcoin stan. Tell me more about your galaxy-brained understanding of economics 😂
Ad hominem, why am I not surprised?
From David Greaber’s and Michael Hudson’s work, I think I have a better understanding than most.
Whether or not you need a government to manage money is neither here nor there. The specific monies that the US & Argentina specifically have are sovereign fiat monies, which are controlled by their governments.
That is not the idea that he had in mind when devaluing the currency. Instead of respecting the international money market exchange rates for USD to the Peso, he has unilaterally declared a new value which is about half of what it was before. The idea is to make Argentinian goods and labor competitive on the international market so the country can vacuum up huge sums of money from greedy investors.
That idea is dumb though because investors tend to want some kind of political stability. They will not just say “Oh I can build my widget for 30% cheaper in Argentina because of this money woo” - they will say “Oh, Argentina will probably seize my assets if we invest there because they’re being run by a nutjob dictator.”
The black market rate was around 1000 pesos per dollar and the official was 400. They devalued it to bring it closer to the black market one.
If the official rate meant anything, the black market one wouldn’t be so drastically different.
Instead of respecting the international money market exchange rates for USD to the Peso
You’re completely ignoring the black market Peso : USD conversion rate, which is even lower than what Millei has shifted things to at about 1000 pesos per dollar. The aim is to try to get the rate to actually reflect reality.
Picture me surprised, he looked like a calm and rationale person
I knew he was going to hurt Argentina badly, but I didn’t expect him to be this quick
I’m so glad Argentina pulled out from BRICS+, it would have been a drain on it
Brics hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Where nobody trusts each other enough to even talk about one single deal.
China and India are almost at war. China will invade Russia as soon as they can to take back kamtsjatska (and they should) Etc
I’m glad you are underestimating them, for a moment I was worried the G7 might take them seriously and do something
It’s clear you do not understand geo politics… Who is in the g7 with veto power? Which letters of brics?
The Security Council is made up of former Allied Powers, so the US, UK, France, Russia (successor to USSR), and PRC (successor to ROC). So 3 in the G7 and 2 in BRICS.
I’m not sure what’s the point of this question.
Now my turn: Name the bloc that just exceeded the G7 as the largest economies in the world.
Here’s the answer:
Not even one brics country trusts one other brics country. Nuf said. Hahaha you lost Argentina?
