They must have known Israel would retaliate heavily.
I wonder if their plan was to try and draw in other countries and create a large multi country war.
If so they seem to have failed.
Iran and Hamas just wanted to stop Saudi Arabia from establishing diplomatic ties with Israel, further marginalizing Iran in the region. They succeeded there, and the majority of the retribution fell on the citizens of Gaza.
Iran got everything they wanted and came out clean.That was Hamas strategy for sure.
Iran won't join; Hezbollah will go in their stead.
Iran or Israel's plan? Iran is well known for enlisting terrorists to do their dirty work for them, and Israel is probably eyeing up some border territory they can grab.
Apparently the sentiment among settlers is that the "natural borders of the Jewish Homeland" extend from the Nile to the Euphrates.
You know, that famous Jewish city, Dubai.
I think this is something a lot of people don't realize. If Israel showed any weakness after the Hamas terrorist attacks, it is likely Iran, Lebanon, who else knows who, would attack as well.
Israel was put in an impossible situation and did what it had to do to protect itself.
Israel was put in an impossible situation and did what it had to do to protect itself.
Like what? Stealing people's homes in the West Bank? Killing children?
So the terrorist attack by Hamas was justified in your opinion?
Lol did I say that? Was Israel ignoring the intelligence about the attack justified? Is murdering children justified? Is stealing people's homes justified?
This is trolling right?
I'm talking about Israel's response to being attacked by terrorists. Terrorists who use civilians as human shields and have no respect for anyone's lives. Terrorists who have very clearly stated they will attack Israel again.
Of course Israel is going to defend its people and do everything they can to stop future attacks.
I'm not saying what has happened in the west bank is good. I am saying that it does not justify terrorism.
You and I are not solving this issue.
do everything they can to stop future attacks.
Lol you really believe this?
I’m not saying what has happened in the west bank is good. I am saying that it does not justify terrorism.
Anyone who steals someone's home is a terrorist. Maybe if they weren't forcing families out of their homes, they would have had better security at the border fence. It's almost like they wanted it to happen.
You and I are not solving this issue.
Okay, and?
Oh yeah because Israel gives so much more respect to those innocent people right?
It's called Guerilla warfare against an apartheid state.
That is absolutely untrue. Murdering children and celebrating it is terrorism. Hamas is a terrorist organization. These are not freedom fighters.
It's sad that the IDF was using human shields. Their soldiers were hiding in shelter bunkers so Hamas had no choice but to blow up the bunkers.
Gaza has been under military occupation by Israel since 1970 (including after the disengagement in 2005; the blockade is very much a form of military occupation). Being attacked by the people you're occupying is the obvious outcome, setting aside the specific details of the attack because I know Hamas did some unspeakable things in Oct 7. If Israel wanted to protect themselves they'd stop their occupation of Palestine and retreat to 1967 borders.
Palestinian leaders never accepted the 1967 borders until 1988. And even then it wasn't genuine:
https://www.meforum.org/6264/why-the-oslo-process-doomed-peace
"We make peace with enemies," Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin reassured a concerned citizen shortly after the September 13, 1993 conclusion of the Israel-PLO Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements (DOP, or Oslo I). "I would like to remind you that the [March 1979] peace treaty with Egypt had many opponents, and this peace has held for 15 years now."[1] True enough. But peace can only be made with enemies who have been either comprehensively routed (e.g., post-World War II Germany and Japan) or disillusioned with the use of violence—not with those who remain wedded to conflict and war. And while Egyptian president Anwar Sadat was a "reformed enemy" eager to extricate his country from its futile conflict with Israel, Yasser Arafat and the PLO leadership viewed the Oslo process not as a springboard to peace but as a "Trojan Horse" (in the words of prominent PLO official Faisal Husseini) designed to promote the organization's strategic goal of "Palestine from the [Jordan] river to the [Mediterranean] sea"—that is, a Palestine in place of Israel.
Arafat admitted as much five days before signing the accords when he told an Israeli journalist, "In the future, Israel and Palestine will be one united state in which Israelis and Palestinians will live together"[3]—that is, Israel would cease to exist. And even as he shook Rabin's hand on the White House lawn, the PLO chairman was assuring the Palestinians in a pre-recorded, Arabic-language message that the agreement was merely an implementation of the organization's "phased strategy" of June 1974. This stipulated that the Palestinians would seize whatever territory Israel surrendered to them, then use it as a springboard for further territorial gains until achieving the "complete liberation of Palestine."
Almost every Palestinian around wants a one-state solution. That's bad because? A one-state solution is better than a two-state solution in every way possible, except in securing Israel's Jewish majority state where they can practice apartheid.
It's bad because if your goal is peace, it's a non-starter. No moral judgement about either side, that's just how it is. Maybe if we get peace through a two-state solution, 100 years from now there might be a chance for unification, but right now the wounds are too deep.
I mean Palestinians (including Hamas, believe it or not) are currently working towards (or would like to, but the other side is a genocidal state that has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo) a two-state solution, but the fact that one state encompassing all of Palestine is no secret. The article you linked uses that as a proof that the Oslo process was doomed from the start. That's unadulterated bullshit. The Oslo peace process was the closest the conflict ever came to ending, until a Zionist terrorist assassinated Rabin. There's just no way that can be blamed on the Palestinian side.
I agree, but the simple fact is Arafat and other Palestinian leaders were telling the people they were negotiating with one thing, and their own people another thing. The simple fact is neither side has ever wanted anything but "from the river to the sea". The Oslo process wasn't necessarily doomed, and it was the closest to peace we've been, but it would have been (if it had succeeded) far from the end of the peace process.
Gaza has been under military occupation by Israel since 1970
Which also happened after everyone around Israel tried attacking them and ended one-sidedly losing still.
And that justifies apartheid because?
If Israel showed any weakness after the Hamas terrorist attacks, it is likely Iran, Lebanon, who else knows who, would attack as well.
Ironically enough, this is how they got the land in the first place; except they won so strongly they actually ended with more land than they started.
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Rule #1 of having a proxy war, really.
not with an american battle group in the area, certainly. there may have been a few others that biden wanted to send message to, but if so, it was by sending an open letter to Iran.
Yeah, that what it's there for. It's not that intimidating to Hamas, the USA doesn't do much at the moment. They shot down some rockets, but ultimately are "just" a cocked gun to anyone in the region thinking about entering this war.
Having multiple carrier groups locked and loaded right next door makes this decision pretty easy.
They don't need to "enter the war" because they are already successfully planning, funding, and supporting it from behind the scenes.
I would like to remind everyone of the current year and that in this year a nation of 90 million people are ruled by a council of shamans. You know just in case anyone was kinda happy that this was isn't going to explode even more so.
Pending United States government if the Far Right ever gets their way.
Religion needs to become history.
Dark Brandon's message to Iran seemed to have worked.
"Don't."
I don't think Iran needed Dark Brandon to remind them a direct conflict with Israel would be a stupid risk for them. Iran's strategy was always to use proxy groups to attack Israel even when Israel attacked Iranian territory. If they won't start a war as a response to a direct aggression it's pretty obvious they would never risk themselves trying to save what they see as disposable tools¹.
¹ if you disagree with this assessment, look at who contributes more foreign aid for Palestine, even when accounting for the donor's GDP
I just want this war to be over already. I'm tired of reading about dead babies and naked women being spat on. It's gross on all sides
Unless the apartheids regime falls this will continue. The only thing that will lead to peace is getting America to stop supporting Zionazis
Peace is a long ways away and would require strong will for it on both sides as well as a lot of luck.
One side is doing Genocide and colonialism. The other side just tries to live in peace. Wanna know how they got peace in South Africa? They kicked out the white nationalist government
My intent was not to put equal blame on both sides. But if Israel wants peace and good relations, it won't happen unless the people of Palestine are agreeable to the terms. And just accepting some cease fire or peace agreement doesn't imply they like the terms, it just implies they prefer those terms over being bombed and invaded. They will need terms they can be happy with otherwise there will be another terror attack down the line and the cycle of violence might start up again.
Realistically, I don't think this situation will be resolved in a way that eliminates violence completely. But they might be able to get to a place where they can agree to blame individuals involved in the violence rather than blaming the other group.
And yeah, as long as the current regimes have power, it will be hard to separate the intent of the individuals from the groups.
Good.
