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This is one huge problem I have had with gun control advocates. In Canada they are basically banning all rifles that look ‘military’. The problem? All, and I mean ALL semi-auto rifles now look like that. Even ones that still have wooden furniture like a pre-WW2 era rifle can have them swapped out for black polymer and ‘look’ modern.
Even lever guns are sporting serious polymer furniture that make them look like sci-fi western guns.
The definition of ‘military style’ gun was created in the late 80s when your average gun owner was still owning their vintage ww2 surplus rifle (from the 1960s to 70s WW2 era rifles were so common on the market that there wasn’t that much room for anything truly new) that had that old school look while all new military rifles had switched to polymers and had protruding pistol grips.
The rhetoric has remained the same despite almost 40 years passing and a lot of basic changes.
I’ve always wondered. What is the thing on top of an M-16? Is that just a carrying handle?
Pretty much, yes. It also serves as a mount for the rear sight. Since the AR platforms keep all the major moving parts in a straight line back from the barrel, ergonomics requires the sights to be higher than usual to account for the shape of the face.
The other guy explained it better, but basically yes.
That first graphic reminds me of sci fi author David Brin’s concept of a “militia rifle”.
(He published this a long time ago and I’m unclear if he still supports the idea)
Basically he argues:
- Mass shootings are a problem
- Resisting government tyranny is important
- (He claims) historically a group of people with lower capacity rifles can hold their own against people bearing high capacity automatics, because in many-vs-many battles the individual guns’ bullet output matters less (more about which group controls which points on the battlefield permitting covering of other points)
- So a mass shooter is a 1-vs-many scenario (shooter vs crowd)
- Resisting government tyranny is probably gonna be a many-vs-many scenario (militia vs army)
- Therefore it’s legit for people to own firearms that are low capacity, high hassle
Seems to me the California laws approach this design equilibrium.
Resisting government tyranny this can be anything, because people aren’t going to form up militias to fight the government. literal founding fathers fan fiction material
Then why don’t more people have that style of gun?
I hear this argument all the time about different banned features and attachments. (I own and shoot often btw)
Like for braces. People say it doesn’t make you more able to kill, when it does.
When there was a brief time where braces were legally iffy, I was using a sling instead. Let me tell you something, shooting with a sling is incredibly inaccurate compared to a brace.
Every shot removes the pressure you are putting on the sling, whereas a brace every shot pushes it into your shoulder more.
Shooting with a brace is incredibly similar to shooting with a stock, essentially identical just barely less comfortable.
People are so political when they talk about guns, just be honest with yourself. You can love guns and love regulation at the same time. Maybe we just shouldn’t have crazy people and violent people owning them?
But, why outlaw braces in the first place?
Regulation is good when it makes sense. Calling a gun an “assault weapon” and trying to figure out some ass-backwards and arbitrarily definition afterwards is not good regulation.
Because they make it easier to stay on target for rapid fire shots.
Go ahead and try to tell me that a brace doesn’t make a AR pistol more dangerous to a crowd. I’ve heard this argument a thousand times and I have worked out every angle. Let’s just be honest?
I feel like I have no place. Gun nuts completely ignore reality, gun haters have no real plan for change.
I’m curious how you feel about Hunter Biden being charged with a felony for saying he did not use any drugs on his gun registration. Almost every shooter I know is guilty of the exact same crime, yet everyone thinks it’s okay because he’s a Democrat lol. The second amendment only exists for those who you like 😂
I’ll be honest, as a gun owner I completely despise the gun community. Especially the 3D printed gun community. Filled with Nazi dog whistles, The most popular full auto loophole is called the SS
I feel like I have no place. Gun nuts completely ignore reality, gun haters have no real plan for change.
I don’t collect guns, but I think one should respect both the 1st and 2nd amendments, and it’s frustrating that neither party does so. Frankly, they both ignore reality. The GOP thinks it needs to completely combat any and all regulation presented towards them, even in the face of some mass shooting incident. And Democrats wants to call for the “ban of all guns”, even though there are millions of guns in the system and a 2nd amendment that says no. The fact that they even dared to ban handguns in Washington, DC was ridiculous. None of these laws take any middle ground, and even when they try to classify some gun type they want to ban, it’s a shitty and poorly-crafted law.
I don’t think outright bans are the answer, anyway. Most of what they do in Canada are regulations on who and how you get things. It’s possible to get what you want, but it’s harder than some kid walking into a gun convention and buying a gun with cash.
I’m curious how you feel about Hunter Biden being charged with a felony for saying he did not use any drugs on his gun registration. Almost every shooter I know is guilty of the exact same crime, yet everyone thinks it’s okay because he’s a Democrat lol. The second amendment only exists for those who you like 😂
I think Republicans were trying to find anything on Hunter for years, and this was the one thing they pinned him on. I also don’t think his pardon was a problem for the same reasons this author presented. I think the whole drug question is fucking stupid because the War on (some) Drugs only exists to selectively punish whoever they like, mostly the poor.
Why do old gun nuts ignore the beginning of every interpretation and rewriting of the second amendment? “well regulated”
The nuts will not care until it is their child who is turned into pink mist.
Do you know how many Democrats I have met who actually want to ban all guns? Zero. You are just parroting Fox News talking points that make the left seem like they are anti-freedom.
Go far enough left and you get your guns back.We don’t want to strip the world of guns, we want to strip guns from those who have violent intentions and mental illness. I’m willing to bet that you agree with this and you are probably further left on this than you actually think you are
Does your opinion on braces change or do you still think that they Don’t make an AR-15 more dangerous having one? I would love to go to the range with you we can take the brace off of my AR and shoot the target, then put it back on and shoot the target. I guarantee you will miss the paper at least once without the brace. This is not me saying they should be illegal. But people like you keep trying to say that braces don’t do anything, that is an outright lie
This discussion means absolutely nothing if people have bad faith arguments. And I’m talking about both sides
Do you know how many Democrats I have met who actually want to ban all guns? Zero. You are just parroting Fox News talking points that make the left seem like they are anti-freedom.
I think you wildly misunderstand my associations. I don’t watch Fox News or any of the other GOP propaganda channels. I consider myself a liberal. I just happen to understand what the 2nd amendment was designed for.
But, I have personally met liberals who think the world’s mass shooting problems could be solved by getting rid of all guns, as if that was some achievable goal in the US. These are people who have never owned a gun in their life, who live in the city, and ironically think that the police is going to protect them when some crazy person shows up in their neighborhood, without understanding that some people in rural areas, where the police are 4-6 hours away, buy guns to actually protect themselves.
Meanwhile, Republican gun nuts are hoarding guns and if there was ever any sort of civil war in this country, they would be the ones with far more firepower. We need to get back to an age of Black Panthers, where liberals were arming themselves as a political counterbalance to armed Republican gun nuts. Just like how the Church of Satan is a political counterbalance to attempts to circumvent the separation of church and state. Every time some politician wants to post the Ten Commandments in a government building, they are there to scare off the idea, by reminding them we have a 1st amendment right to honor all religions, not just Christianity.
IDK why the second pic says “same capacity” when…you can see they don’t have the same capacity.
The top rifle looks like it has one of those 10-bullet mags, so the difference isn’t much.
Thank you for providing an explanation of this. I don’t know a lot about guns but this is very informative.
Someone needs to come up with a kit to make an AR look like the rifles at the top
All you have to do is buy a Mini-14 from Ruger instead of an AR to accomplish that.
Mini-14 is now prohib in Canada as of 2020. They say they did it because of the Polytechnique shooting in 1989, but they had passed sweeping gun legislation in the 90s already. It is kinda incredible how that shooting is still the number 1 talking point and they’ve practically competely forgotten about the Nova Scotia shooting in 2020. I think it is because they are well aware that the 2020 shooting was done pretty much entirely with firearms smuggled in from the US. And the one gun that he had that was sourced in Canada the RCMP let him have due to a major league fuckup when they had all the right to just take it.
Also he was forbidden from owning firearms well before the shooting. Despite countless complaints that he had guns and seemed to be planning something fucked, they chose to do nothing, as usual.
It’s funny how gun control is a legitimately important issue but some of its biggest and loudest advocates are more interested in looking busy and being ‘tough’ on guns rather than addressing actual problems.
Too easy
There already is.
If it is just as capable as an AR-15 then why not just buy that gun?
Hint: it isn’t.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WA_guns/comments/bld13i/my_california_compliant_ar/?rdt=44855
This should be pretty close save for the ar mag
Unpopular opinion, probably, but if your hobby, such as hiking, sewing, reading, improv comedy… kills more children than car crashes, someone should be allowed to take a look at stopping that. Unless the hobby is guns, of course, of course.
I think the comment was more about politicians banning weapons based on how they look. It really doesn’t matter how a firearm aesthetically looks, and politicians should use their capabilities to determine if they should be banned. I know that this is an issue to a degree in the US. I don’t know about Canada.
I think the person I replied to was begging the question a little by saying “gun control advocates want to ban guns on how they look.”
I dont think any serious participant in the discussion is saying guns are ok under any circumstances so long as if they look silly.
if we’re gonna ban stuff just based on deaths, we should get rid of fast food, soda, cigarettes, alcohol, and cars in general
I’d argue that food and drink, cigarettes and cars are already regulated more than US guns. For example, it’s illegal to sell soup out of the trunk of my car in some jurisdictions where I could sell a gun under the same circumstances.
We can dive into specifics if you want, I’m sure you’ll be able to find some examples, and counter examples, but I don’t think that’s especially a fruitful conversation.
argue that food and drink, cigarettes and cars are already regulated more than US guns
i’d disagree. of course, I agree that all these items are regulated. which makes sense for all the same reasons- a lot of people die if you fuck up. but you don’t need an id and a background check to buy a McDonalds combo meal
I’m sure you’ll be able to find some examples, and counter examples, but I don’t think that’s especially a fruitful conversation.
maybe not but your example
it’s illegal to sell soup out of the trunk of my car in some jurisdictions where I could sell a gun under the same circumstances
I think the opposite is true. There’s a ton of places I can sell soup, especially if it’s pre-packaged and inspected by the FDA. for example I can go to walmart and buy a bunch of canned soup and sell that all day, no problem. In most of this country, however, you cannot just sell guns from the back of your car
sure, there are exceptions in certain states. for example a private seller who is not in the regular business of selling guns, there are specific states that allow you to do so with significantly less scrutiny than a dealer. although you still have the responsibility to do a basic check (is person old enough, what is person buying gun for)
beyond that, the overwhelming majority of gun sales go through Federal Firearms Licensed businesses. which conduct background checks and check ID.
tldr: if you’re in one of the few states that allow it and you want to sell 1 or 2 guns out of the back of your car, OK. if you are anywhere else and/or you sell more than a couple guns, you’re liable to get hit with some very serious federal and state charges. like potentially years in the federal penitentiary type charges
you don’t need an ID or a background check to buy a gun, gunshow loophole baby!
And some troglodytes in here would happily condemn billions to death by agreeing with that
Only black powder guns, single round, should be sold to the public. Like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3-ZWLSmgco&t=527s It’s all anybody needs for hunting.
Time flies when you’re having fun. No justice in that at all.
Is this a bic pen situation?
Are we forming a pen club here?
I’m quite fond of the number 15, can we include it in the pen club somehow?
Urine luck pal! Mike already took Pen 14 so you can be Pen 15
1911s being from 1911 make my head spin.
1911 is the crocodile of guns. You can’t improve upon perfection.
The best way I’ve ever heard it described, “It’s the gun that forgot to become obsolete.”
I fired an M-1911 a little while ago. It was the instructor’s personal weapon.
Turns out I’m magically some kind of crack shot with a .45. He was probably exaggerating but the instructor was an army ranger or sniper or something and told me he’d never see a beginner shoot that well.
So I’m probably some kind of Jason Bourne type who just forget about his past as a super duper soldier.
I put about twenty rounds through an area the size of a silver dollar. Short range — 7 yards I think — but he was still impressed. Or he was really good at hyping his students up.
Congrats of your Super soldier past life! I must have been a boat captain in a past life because when I got my skippers license, I’d never driven a boat, and the instructor was floored at my maneuvering skills and pulling alongside the pier after only 30 minutes of theory. He said “I set you up to fail because I didn’t warn you about the crosswind and the current, but you nailed it. Show me again.” And I repeated the maneuver again twice, perfectly pulling up to the designated spot each time. I felt pretty proud about that.
Who’s running Treadstone??
I certainly love my Kimber 1911, I’ve never shot a 45 that groups as well as it
The M2 is almost as old. Both are still in service around the world. Both are John Browning designs.
It will never stop being funny to me that both the M2 and the 1911 are (according to scifi-fantasy franchise Warhammer 40.000) still in use in the 41st Millennium.
If it ain’t broke,
I’m not sure why this suprises people.
M2 Browning was bolted to basically everything american in ww2 and that was 80-90 years ago. It’s an old weapon
68 yr ago technically.
Ummm acktually the A2 developemnt began in 1979, which makes it 45 years old.
(Psssst, that was the “technically” part.)
Nah, the design of the A2 is uniquely different, if we want to be technically pedantic.
May I introduce you to the concept of technicalities.
Using this example to illustrate, technically the AR-15 and the M16a2 are the same platform, just with a few minor changes like the furniture. I mean we’re not considering the M4 a completely different platform just because of the feed ramps, are we? The second you swap from a quad rail to a free float system does it cease being an ar15? No not really, it’s still the same gun, but there are minor changes that only matter on clone rifles (which are usually not 100% anyway, why you only have two pinholes hmm?)
So, technically the A2 is different from the A1, and technically the A1 is different from the first ar15s with the addition of the forward assist, but technically they’re also all the same platform, at least close enough to say they’re the same thing. Thus: “Technically.”
Thank you for coming to my technicality Ted talk.
few minor changes like the furniture
And the fire control group, and the barrel design, and the reenforcement on the back of the receiver. The redesign of the sights is not merely cosmetic as fixed sights are more tied to rifles than removable. With those, and the other changes all standardized into one design.
And that somehow makes it a different platform than before, which is why they called it the m16a2 instead of the m17? We’re talking the Rifle of Theseus here.
So if I put together some magpul flippy bois, an FRT, a pencil barrel, and a Hoffman lower, is it not an ar15?
Nam was fifty years ago, I think most people would think Hueys and M16s when asked that question.
When I joined the Army in 1994, my unit still had m16a1
Information that appeared to me in a dream confirms that the US Army was still issuing M16A1 lowers into the 2000s.
I was in the Army from 2000-2004. I started out with a Vietnam era belt/ suspender gear and an M16a2 (with some A1s still around for training) . By the time I got out, we had updated molly Vests and M4s.
I want to understand what you mean by that lol
yeah just casually talking about his astral projection gained knowledge
Doesn’t to elaborate more on it haha
We were using A2s back then. I would have loved to get my hands on an A1 though. Fully auto? Yes please!
I went to basic in 93 and we had A1’s in basic but my unit (101st) had A2’s for everyone, at least for the combat arms guys.
I’m not seeing a difference
