Help-wanted advertisements in New York will have to disclose proposed pay rates after a statewide salary transparency law goes into effect on Sunday, part of growing state and city efforts to give women and people of color a tool to advocate for equal pay for equal work.
Employers with at least four workers will be required to disclose salary ranges for any job advertised externally to the public or internally to workers interested in a promotion or transfer.
Pay transparency, supporters say, will prevent employers from offering some job candidates less or more money based on age, gender, race or other factors not related to their skills.
Advocates believe the change also could help underpaid workers realize they make less than people doing the same job.
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Earn up to $17 an hour. Saw that on a sign outside Qdoba. Note this was one of the first places that started hitting me up for tips on their credit card machines.
Asked a worker, "Your shift supervisors really make $17 an hour? Or is that supposed to be with tips."
He laughed and said, "No one here is getting paid that much."
$17 for managers with an MBA, PhD in Economics, and 47 years experience.
Sorry sir, but you're overqualified.
Just like ads for retail stores: "Up to 70% off OR MORE"
Which really means fuckall.Everything any price store
Dang minimum wage in my city is $18/h
We're still chilling at $7.25
Three things I've seen:
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Employees getting "title changes" with no formal promotions.
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Finding candidates through employee referrals or word-of-mouth, therefore no formal job posting.
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"Expression of Interest" job postings, where no role is technically open or being sought to fill, but candidates can still submit resumes.
Last company I was at would bring people in on referrals, then offer them a different job and never pay out the referral because they didn't accept the job there were initially referred for.
Magically the well dried up in a couple months and they were looking at 80% turnover in a matter of weeks. Never seen so many people quit en masse.
Did they have any kind of self-awareness as to why they had the resulting turnover? So many times I've been in companies where they do boneheaded moves, have the inevitable consequence, and then blame it on something else.
The industry was pharma. Specifically the opioid side. They don't do self-awareness. And I'll do ya one more, they have been in the headlines recently. Just do a quick search for Mallinckrodt and you'll get the gist.
I don't get the third. There is a company pretty close to my home that has had the same job post up for years. It is fairly specific as well. Is it some kinda weird tax or immigration scam? Like they have to pretend to be trying to find someone for a role.
It could be that, yes. I just meant that by having a general "expression of interest" post, they can say they're not hiring, but still be building a candidate pool. Then when they need people, they can pull from it and say, "well, we're not specifically filling a role, but you seem like you'd be a good fit here." Nothing specifically wrong with that either, except once again, they can get away with not posting a salary.
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I'm in the job market right now and I don't even look at ads that don't include salary range. Sometimes if I'm annoyed enough I'll go full Karen and email the recruiter or whoever posted the add to tell them exactly that. (And completely ignore them if they come back with a number, too late bub.)
Great news and congrats, New Yorkers! But really, this should just be a normal thing without a law requirement. It is in my home country and it's one of the things I'm really missing after moving abroad. It helped me dodge the bullet, twice, when I got an offer but saw the market ranges, including ones from those companies that I applied to, be 2x+ more than what I was offered. Could've got those companies banned from job posting sites but didn't bother.
Pay transparency, supporters say, will prevent employers from offering some job candidates less or more money based on age, gender, race or other factors not related to their skills.
I think bigger problem is pay lottery itself. And empolyer don't want old(as in longer employed in same company) employees to know they are paid less than newly-hired.
This is why everyone needs to talk about their salary. Shatter that idiotic notion about pay rate discussions being bad, because it only benefits the assholes at the top sucking every penny they can.
In most of post-Soviet countries labour laws explicitly says workers can say their salary, working conditions and other stuff and cannot be punished for this.
This is also true in the US. Its very important
Yep. That's why I brought up my comment. I thought for years that discussing your salary was a really bad thing, because so many people talk about how you'll get fired for it. Imagine my surprise when I actually read through those NLRB posters in the break room…
Help wanted: widget twister. Pay range $4/hr - $12,000,000/hr
This is literally what my job is doing now… "Machinists: $16-$30/hr"
… so you're saying it's $16/hr.
That's when you just see through their bullshit and don't apply.
When you have other companies that aren't bullshitting, and they're also paying a higher minimum wage, the other companies pulling that shit don't stand a chance.
My state has had a similar law for a while now and not much has changed. Companies will either mostly ignore it, or give pay ranges that are so wide that the information is meaningless… No joke, I have seen jobs posted that said the salary was from $150k to 600k. What good is that?!
Especially considering that so many jobs these days go through headhunters, you'll get an email and rarely does it include the salary range. And it's not like these headhunters sitting in a call-center in India who barely speak English give a shit about some new law.
I live in CA where a law like this has been in effect for a while. Almost all jobs I look at have a pretty tight pay range and has allowed me to bypass not wasting time applying for super low pay positions. Every once in a blue moon you see a company post in bad faith but that's an anomaly not the norm and let's me know they're a shitty company I shouldn't work for.
Pet peeve: emails with the subject "urgent need start ASAP". I actually called up one recruiter who sent me that and asked them why I would ever consider working for a company that plans ahead so badly.
Oh yes that is exactly what my ulcer needs. A job running a huge complex project that is turning into a clusterfuck because they didn't want to hire an engineer until the last possible second for fear of spending a penny extra. Yes please give me this job. I want to work with people who are a bad mixture of ditzy and cheap.
Those "headhunters" in India are nearly entirely useless anyway so I don't even bother responding to them anymore… Especially if they aren't going to include salary ranges.
Recruiting in general needs a fundamental overhaul. People should not be recruiting at all for positions that they themselves have zero experience in. If IT recruiters, for example, were all former IT staff then we'd have a much higher quality pool of applicants since the recruiters would actually know what to look for and what questions to ask for a change.
I have to say it's been bad for a verrrrry long time. I'm actually surprised people try to offshore this; my experience was bad enough with local headhunters; cannot imagine how much worse it would be to have them offshored…this kind of thing should be about building human, ideally local, relationships so placements are better matches. I've seen very, very good headhunters in action, and all of them were local and if not working the area for a decade+ already, they were doing everything possible to build a real, human network. But the good ones are like 5% of the field, I'd say.
5% at best but I definitely agree… It's possible for recruiters to be good and step one is being local as well as being experienced and familiar with the local companies and job market.
I've always compared the worst ones to having the ethics of the worst caricature of people in used car sales - a typical pattern was putting the youngest (and often quite attractive) women they could find as their front-facing people to talk to the talent, with the older men there to close the deal/maintain the relationships/do the very hard sell to the talent, etc…neither the backroom managers nor the front-facing people seemed to know or care all that much about the actual work or about your situation, etc…it was about getting to a close.
The very best operated quite differently from this. When I run across people doing it right, I am sure to take down their information and be sure I kept it somewhere for a rainy day. As for the others, they tend to come and go, I've noticed (sometimes just a rename/acquisition, though) but I also take down their information, but more as a blacklist/contact only if absolutely needed type of situation…
I cannot imagine trying to take an offshore group even the least bit seriously, unless my situation was very dire indeed.
No joke, I have seen jobs posted that said the salary was from $150k to 600k.
At least it wasn't "below 600k"
This is going to be interesting as hell…I used to work for a fortune 50 and on my way out I accidentally saw the pay rates for all the people in my department.
I should have kept that document, but was afraid of legal…and that place had Satan on their pay roll.
The really interesting data points were 2 women, who weren't particularly good at their jobs, were off the pay scale by over 100%. Like wildly over paid compared to the rest of the department. #3 was a guy who I thought was our best dev…came in at half their rate.
It would be total bedlam if they had to make that public.
Sounds like BoA
I'm sure it would be in the short term, but in the long term, I bet it would land on being a better place to work.
I can't fathom that place ever being a good place to work…it's old money, and they have cash reserves to keep them solvent for a century.
They have no incentive to change. They're happy when their high value staff quit and could care less about the churn it causes.
They should be required to list lowest possible pay rate.
They have to provide a range. Knowing the highest is also very helpful when you're negotiating a starting salary.
I think this works for some job positions, and probably most.
I’m looking for an engineer right now. I’ll take a young one to train up, but I’ll also take an experienced engineer that I don’t have to do anything.
That pay range is pretty broad.
Just came to say that companies will do exactly that if the law allows.
Entry level job:
- Req 1
- Req 2
Pay: $1-500,000
and pay you the lowest number you'll say yes to
I seem to recall holacracy would automatically have this built in.
I've never heard of Holacracy before. What? Why? How? Has it been tried?
It has, I cannot speak to how well it works. I read a book on it some time ago. I seem to recall that one of the more high-profile examples was that Zappos had tried it?
Interesting, something I can read about
Also, I should add that I think some companies were publishing all their compensation for everyone, at least internally for employees, and they were not necessarily doing Holacracy.
Carvel Ice Cream?
I expect to see Cookie Puss on the picket lines soon.
It's been 84 years…
Employers with at least four workers will be required to disclose salary ranges
I wonder why four, not three, or five? I wonder how they actually decide this number when they make these kind of laws?
