This is not a zero sum game. there’s no competition. We can deal with both problems, we don’t have to pick a side.
Well yes, and the starting point is by dismissing the myth that the double standards are not applied to everyone. They are applied differently, but it is not something that only affects one group of people.
Is that really a myth? Because it feels like the only time this point is brought up is to “dispel the myth”, not the myth itself which I frankly can’t recall having ever heard.
My theory is that it’s actually a mix of angry dudes feeling excluded because they weren’t explicitly included by women talking about their own struggles, and of the fact that men just generally don’t talk about their struggles. So the coverage feels disproportional and the only time the subject gets brought up it’s because some angry misogynist managed to weave it into an “us vs them” discourse.
Men’s mental health is a huge conversation to have but it’s extremely disheartening that in the mainstream conversation it always pops up through misogyny.
So in the spirit of actually doing something about men’s mental health, here’s some actual discourse on the subjectLemmy needs an r/menslib equivalent
Why did this get immediately downvoted, lol
Because it starts by making an assumption about men when they want to talk about their mental health… sounds a tad sexist to me tbh.
My theory is that it’s actually a mix of angry dudes feeling excluded because they weren’t explicitly included by women talking about their own struggles
Ah yes, that explains it, just a mix of “angry dudes” who feel “excluded”. Right… maybe they are just men who care about men’s health? Maybe it’s just men who think, “Oh, yeah, I see this body issue, actually I can relate because TV also set unrealistic expectations for me”…
But no, it’s the angry dudes, the sad dudes, trying to steal spotlight from women… -.-
I think you got something wrong here. The comment talks about the “angry dudes” complaining that women would think men didn’t have this struggle. See very first statement in the meme. It’s about the myth not the real problem itself.
Whereas people actually participating in the discourse know very well those double standards apply to everyone.
I’m convinced the current influencer body standard for women (huge asses, giant lips, etc) was some joke by plastic surgeons and they just rolled with it
Apparently anyone can become a plastic surgeon because I’d never get any sleep if I made people look like that.
give me a syringe and a bike pump
Dude I like seeing sexy people on tv. If I want to look at something mediocre I can just look in a mirror.
You look mediocre? Lucky.
dad bod is still sexy, lots of people find that actively sexier
Maybe for relationships but I’d be mad if Superman came out with bellyfat because that ruins the whole “Super” man idea. He’d just be Man…
… You know this is probably still better than what DC is putting out now.
Well… he’s some form of super at least 🤣
If I recall correctly isuku midoria had a six pack before he got his powers and he was considered weak at that point
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i feel we have different definitons of dad bod, it doesn’t mean beer belly lol
it just means not having a sixpack and being able to see every single muscle fibre, it’s what henry cavill looks like when he isn’t filming a movie where he needs chiseled abs.
I’m talking about that as well. Just because it’s Henry Cavill’s dad bod doesn’t mean I would want to watch a movie where Superman’s physique is that of a normal person.
LoL. There’s a fish out there for ya if your line is strong enough.
They are all on T.
sTeroids?
Tren, but yes.
For sure a good six months of perfect training and diet, plus the steroids, AND the water manipulation.
I thought the T meant Testosterone, like TRT, Testosterone Replacement Therapy which is common for older men.
Like anything though, there’s a fine line between use and abuse.
and Amphetamines
yea bro we could actually get everything we would all look like that and all die at 50
idk I tried amphetamines and let’s just say I haven’t necessarily improved.
Nah, they’ll all live to 70s-80s. Cause in addition to having access to these body-destroying drugs, they also have access to cutting edge medicine, and let me tell you, medicine ain’t what it was like in the 80s. We have solved lots of the problems these people will face due to these drugs. Sure, they’ll have a worse quality of life than if they never took them but we can make sure they survive. The rich have it good coming and going.
BA Barracus approves
Or peptides. Peptide experimentation is rampant. Will probably lead to some weird cancers in 5-10 years
Im gonna ask you. What exactly is the problem with that?
I can walk into a plastic surgeon and talk about how I dont like my eyes/ears/nose/lips/etc and they will take a fucking scalpel and cut me up. I can get hair implants, butt implants, pec implants. I could eat until I have to waddle into a doctors office to be offered a veritable menu of weight loss drugs and invasive surgeries. If I were a woman and pound weight loss drugs, engage in extreme dieting and get some “work done” the general attitude will be “Yass Queen, live your best life!” and not to be transphobic (Its not coming from that place, think what you want) but I could even wholeheartedly believe that my entire gender is wrong and recieve surgeries, hormones and therapies to change that.
But because I’m a grown man in good shape who works out 6 days a week, despite their being an extensive list of drugs and compounds that can relatively safely* give me the body I’d love to have I’m not allowed to have them because they are “performance enhancing” like that isnt the whole reason I want them. I am told, that even with strict medical supervision, bloodwork and other support I’m straight up not allowed. People act like the recipe isnt “Steroids… and a FUCKLOAD OF WORK”
Im gonna ask you. What exactly is the problem with that?
One example of a problem is the fact that the majority of them do not openly talk about it. In fact it’s the opposite, they deny taking PEDs and claim it’s all hard work and that anybody can achieve it.
A more specific example is Chris Hemsworth who sells training programs that claim to give you his physique. Don’t you see the problem with this?
I do agree with you that it if people want to use it they should, under medical supervision and with full understanding of the risks and commitment they bring. My limited understanding of using exogenous hormones is that your body will lose the ability to properly make them and one is bound to taking them for life.
I see a problem with people lying about it, especially if they are profiting off the lie or using it to gain an unfair advantage in sports. The fact that they are illegal and you have to get them underground exacerbates the problem. Its not on your medical history, theres no official records of you being on them so you can lie.
The issue I have is theres a social distain towards steroids that seems unfair when compared to all the other things I listed. I’m not ashamed to tell you that I’m not on steroids, but only because I dont have reliable access to them. Because they are extremely illegal in Australia and because we are an island nation hard to smuggle in and therefore HORRIBLY expensive. If I could have my doctor manage a sensibly dosed regime, Id start tomorrow and I wouldnt lie for a second about it.
You’re half right about the hormones, you experience supression when coming off a cycle thats pretty much directly proportional to your dosage and duration when on steroids. Which is why Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) is a must, suplements that help rebalance your hormones and bring testosterone production back up.
The problem with them being illicit and distained is that theres nothing stopping people from just setting their own insane dosages, running terrible stacks (multiple different drugs/compounds), not doing adequate PCT and generally making up their own rules, leading to bad outcomes.
I agree with you that the stigma around them is not a net positive. Adults should be able to use tools available, in a safe way and if they don’t harm others in the process. Legalizing their use would also minimize problems from illegal trade.
Thanks for the info on the PCT, was not aware. The examples I read were extreme, were the person had been using for years and in high doses so they were effectively dependent on them.
Is there anybody who looks just as good & big as say Hemsworth but who has a third party publicly release medical/drug tests? (So, any massive but proven clean dudes out there?)
Hard to believe EVERY giant is taking big risks with drugs!
I don’t think it’s great that boys are comparing themselves to these guys, buy I agree that you should be allowed to do whatever you want to your body.
Agree 100%
Its like eating disorders or extreme dieting and modelling. The difference with PEDs is the lies, they are actors not athletes. Would it be more or less helpful to young men wanting to look like that to know the truth. “This took tens of thousands of dollars in trainers, dieticians and pharmaceuticals and working out was basically my job for 6 whole months” at least putting it in a realistic frame of reference.
I’m fine with steroid usage but want people to be honest about it.
Agreed, they have to lie because its illegal, the ones who lie and sell workout plans are con-artists. Simple.
Yeah, I just wish it weren’t so taboo. It would be great if folks could just be honest so you could get a better idea of—
-This is the physique that is generally achievable for someone of my size who is natty -This is the physique that is generally achievable for someone of my size with just Cyp -This is what I can achieve with tren
Etc, etc
The meme sort of explains why.
Me, spending 6 months fighting with (and losing to) body dysmorphia but not knowing what it was, since I’m a man and no one told me:
As a woman it took 15 years before I found out what was wrong, at the time of finally seeing someone about it they said this was an average amount of time it takes to get help.
I hope you’re doing better now.
I hope you are too! My “advantage” was dating a trans person at the time, so it was a subject that came up relatively often. Just never considered a cis man having to deal with it.
Has anyone ever said the first statement up there in the top-left? I wouldn’t doubt there’s some fringe group that would, but I also think they would be in the vast minority and you’d need to specifically go looking to find it. I dislike this kind of meme for that reason, it’s sowing a divide that doesn’t need to exist.
I have heard it regularly for a few decades now in person and media. When the dad bod picked up in popularity it was used as an example of how “men don’t have to follow beauty standards” while ignoring all of the other expectations.
Last time I heard the term “dad bod”, it was an article about how when they polled women for an example of one, the top answer was “Chris Hemsworth”
Yeah, it’s the water. That’s the problem
Only part of it, but it’s kinda crazy that studios can go “hey, you need to literally dehydrate yourself for this shot so your veins and muscles can pop out more easily.”
But this is also the industry where Stanley Kubrick practically abused his actors and is a celebrated director, so…
To be fair you can make amazing movies and be a shit person
Actors careers really seem to be at the whim of industry insiders. Harvey Weinstein was able to get away with his shit for decades.
In some cases it doesn’t even make sense.
Why is Witcher so cut and lean? He hunts monsters. He’s not going to maintain a diet while doing that. Dude should look like Vasily Alexeev or Dean Lukin.
Out of all the examples, you picked one where they literally give him super steroids to hunt monsters more effectively.
He’s literally a mutant
There are more relevant examples
Dude that’s Superman you’re talking about
It’s a lot of things. It’s a diet so strict and regimented it controls your life, same for exercise, and then they dehydrate for days. Is the water why random person on Lemmy doesn’t look like that? No, that’s because nobody looks like that unless it’s their job to look like that or it’s their only hobby or they have serious mental health issues pushing them that way. But it is dangerous for most people to even try because yeah it involves a lot of risky decisions and they don’t even look like that all the time
I’ve gone longer than 3 days without water and I look nothing like those guys. Wtf?
Have you tried hiring a personal trainer and using ‘supplements’?
You have to cut out the Mountain Dew as well
how the hell do you go more than 3 days without water? these dudes have staff to make sure they don’t fucking die
None of those guys have a healthy hard-worker or warrior body. They all have a dehydrated, 1% body fat gym bro body, just like Hollywood wants us to believe a healthy man looks like.
blessed be the thor design from God Of War
actually none of them look particularly dehydrated. They just look like they’re straight from a good pump. Dehydrated would leave them very veiny, like, prominently.
Except the actors have talked about it.
I remember Hugh Jackman specifically talked about it in an interview as part of why he wanted to stop being wolverine. He was getting tired of the unhealthy regime of dehydrating to look as clean cut as possible.
yeah that’s why I used hugh jackmans wolverine as an example of what an unhealthy dehydrated body looks like.
These other guys aren’t dehydrated. They just look swole from getting a pump on directly before the scene was shot.
I doubt they’re even on PEDS. These body types are 100% attainable if you put in the effort and sustain it.
I doubt they’re even on PEDS.
While Dr. Schroeder refrains from explicitly mentioning specific Hollywood actors whom he suspects of using performance enhancers
I’m going with the doctor, rather than the random guy on Lemmy who provides no reference, just opinion.
that’s literally what the dr gave. an opinion. Also, I’ve been to medical school and have been bodybuilding since I was 10.
I myself managed this, and knew a bunch of folks that also did, about 15 or so years ago (trying to get back into it, however my health took a few turns since then). Then again I was taking supplements, such as Jack3D at the time (which has been banned for some time since), and wonder if those contributed to it.
Apparently no one is allowed to have body hair.
What’s weird is that hairy chests were considered the sexy style in the 70’s and 80’s, and then it suddenly changed. I blame Arnold.
Looking at what the young uns are wearing these days (and the resurgence of mullets), I would put money on chest hair coming back within the next decade.
I had a friend who shaved his chest and legs in the 00’s and it always seemed so weird. This was before the mainstream enlightenment, so he got called “gay” a lot. That’s kind of an odd reaction to it though, since he was doing it to attract women.
Women like femboys more than men
He definitely wasn’t a femboy. He was a very masculine male. He just shaved his chest and legs. He used to be a Chip N Dale’s dancer when he was younger, so I guess the shaving behavior probably came from those days.
It’s gonna have come and went before the decade has passed
Cavill almost always has chest hair. The only time I can recall seeing him without chest and stomach hair is in The Tudors.
Because IT’S ILLEGAL!
/s
This feels like “I’m 14 and this is deep” content.
It’s obvious that all Hollywood, social media and advertising models are not the average person. Are there really people that think men would be exempt from this? I doubt many.
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Sorry to link to that place but here: Hugh Jackman on mens’ magazines vs womens’.
did you expect “muscle & fitness” to have hugh jackman with the jumper on, or “good housekeeping” to have him tearing apart chores with claws?
Do women not buy muscle and fitness and that’s why it’s a “men’s” magazine?
abandon all hope ye who enter this comment section
Robert Pattinson’s physique as Batman was criticised by the mainstream (mostly by incels) as not being ripped and is skinny, even though experts say his body in “The Batman” is the most realistic built most men would be able to achieve.
Sure well defined muscles are aesthetically pleasing, but not nessa to be considered hot by most of the people you’ll date
Very true, in my experience lots of women like the idea of strength from big muscles but don’t really care to see the striated muscle fibers in a cut look. Hell some are turned off by the vasculature of my hands.
EDIT: Guys in comic books are ripped for the dudes reading them. I imagine the same is true for movie stars.
Oh everyone I know would love to date that. They just wouldn’t love the time and commitment required to build and maintain that.
Yeah I’m sure many of us would if it was just a pill you took lol
Nessa? We channelling Jar Jar Binks now? (All in good fun, OP)
Haha meesa see what you mean. An old friend used to say it and I just like the sound of it
You really think so?
Varies by person but yeah. Look at all the bears and bookish nerds that people fawn over
