The stock market has been decoupled from the real economy for years. There are interests who want all of us to make sacrifices when the stock market goes down, but I don't agree with them.
Would Biden break an Occupy like Obama did?
Obama didn't need to break the occupy wall street moment. That moment was so unorganized that it broke itself.
The media had their role in it too by setting a 'tone' for the whole thing by treating it like a joke from the start and being sure to always interview the kookiest of people whenever they'd visit one of the encampments. Alternatively, conservative outlets like Fox would paint the protestors like a bunch of entitled freeloaders who just wanted to cause problems.
That clip of the wall street tycoons drinking champagne and laughing at the protesters.
They weren’t Wall Street tycoons. They were just people attending a wedding.
Why does this misinformation keep spreading?
Because, even though that specific photo wasn't about rich people laughing at the protests, you damn well know they all did just that. We just don't have pictures.
I get the symbolism. But calling something that it isn’t is just flat out disingenuous.
And then the Democrat Party co-opted it and destroyed the value but making Occupy a meme factory that says things like trump sucks ass! Biden gives the best handies! LIKE AND SHARE IF YOU AGREE!!!"
I think that's because leftist movements with leaders get Fred Hampton'd.
The amount of figures within OWS and BLM that died under strange circumstances is pretty not comforting knowing the organizations who do things like that have near impunity and control of information.
Any sources on the many deaths under strange circumstances?
Feels like the false stories you hear about people that opened tutenchamuns grave.
6 in Ferguson, probably among the one that made more noise.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/puzzling-number-men-tied-ferguson-protests-have-died-n984261
OWS Demonstrator death here
Another OWS demonstrator and community organizer
OWS Demonstrator, Author and powerful community force here, seems less suspicious than the others but also the person is more critical to the movement and had a sizeable reach in his capacity as an author and anthropologist.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/david-graeber-dies-59-occupy-wall-street/
I'd have to ignore a lot of history to consider it impossible for the same people who thought they could control minds with LSD and did put microphones inside Russian street cats to have a hand in this.
There an even older gentleman deeply affiliated with OWS who also passed but again that looks even less suspicious that David Graeber, like the scene is inherently less 'manipulatable' which is not to say its impossible. This is the pattern that a lot of people saw and discussed.
So 6 people in a span of 3 years in an area with a life expectancy of 56.
The two in the burned cars were the likeliest related to the protests and murdered, but it's much more likely to be some gang bullshit and not targeted at all.
Wikipedia says this about it:
As of March 2019, Ferguson protesters have continued to receive threats to their lives or wellbeing
The articles you posted mention this
The 2010 U.S. census showed that while people who live in wealthy and mostly white western St. Louis County can expect to live well into their 80s, life expectancy in parts of mostly black north St. Louis County reaches only into the 60s. Life expectancy in Kinloch, a few miles from Ferguson, is 56.
Forty-five of the county’s 60 homicide victims last year were black in a county where less than a quarter of the population is black, according to police statistics.
I don't think it's any conspiracy shenanigans going on and not government members that killed them suspiciously…long after the protests were over. It looks like a horrible place to live, especially for black people without any perspective for a future.
It smells like "I want to believe", not some deep state revenge after the fact.
It doesn't even look like a statistical anomaly that much if you take everything into account.
Here's a link to suicide rates in the US.
Occupy had no central leadership and nobody on earth seems to be able to accept orgs like that. Seems we've been conditioned to believe that everything must be run in a hierarchy.
If you were there you developed an appreciation for sanitation. I dropped off food a few times and it smelled horrific.
Some organization is a good thing.
Absolutely. Decades of “heros journey” formatted TV and movies does that.
The other side of that "hero" coin is whistleblowers in movies/TV who, in rl, are vilified beyond even the real criminals who tank the world's economy selling banded, illegally-authorized mortgages as good investments.
Yeah, sure, that's why they had the police beat up protesters and journalists.
You think police wouldn't have beat them up if they were organized?
If they were organized enough you'd just have a pile of dead cops when it was over
No, you'd have one dead cop and every protestor dead or in jail. One cop dying is all they need to throw away what little restraint they might have had up to that point. They will kill the people who resist and arrest the ones who don't. If they arrest you they'll drag the trial out for years, by the time you get found guilty and sentenced to a year of probation you'll have spent a decade behind bars.
The problem is that this is not a fair fight, it is a suicide mission for whoever decides to take on the police.
Nah, if it goes down like that you weren't organized enough
There's no organization that can take on the US police. They are backed up by the national guard. The national guard, historically, has demonstrated a willingness to shoot protesters.
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Yeah they are always warning about the stock market and what we need to do to make it go up but most people don't even own stock. Maybe in their 401k if they have one. Other than that the average person probably doesn't care. I hardly even look at my 401k either. Let it tank I don't care. I'll probably work until I die anyways.
The point is other than real estate the 401k is all the middle class has for wealth.
Honestly, these researchers could have saved themselves some work and simply looked at the current income disparity to come to the same conclusion …
The crash is very much a part of the cycle. The rich siphon every single dollar they can during boom times, then increase their market share by buying out smaller, struggling competitors during crashes. And they use taxpayer money to fund their acquisitions.
The class war is over. We lost a long time ago.
It's not over as long as the working class exists. Capital owners have addresses.
Last I checked, billionaires are still made of soft, fragile meat.
Have you not seen Elysium? There's a reason Bezos and Musk have been running space programs as a hobby.
Have you seen Gundam? That won't stop anything because there will be a working class there too and much much fewer places to hide.
I have learned over the past 15 years that online liberal grumblers will find any excuse imaginable to avoid actually doing anything to defend themselves.
I'd argue that the class warfare is still raging on as an inborn human trait that happens to be partially expressed with our various economic systems throughout history. We can still win if we manage to breed out our hierarchical tendencies to a point where it's not detrimental to our survival as a whole.
I've lived through a whole dark age and three supposed end of days with the stock market.
I was working with Lehman Brothers when they went bankrupt.
Watching the collapse of a major investment bank from the inside is an interesting experience.
Still have one of their plexiglass desk cubes listing "Our values", which always brings an ironic smile to my face whenever I see it.
It didn't really collapse. Your CEO walked out the door with over 600 million dollars for a single year of work.
Both things can be true at the same time.
Also we wasn't "my" CEO as I was a freelancer working with them, not an employee, and even if I had been the latter it would still not have been "my" CEO because Lehman wasn't some kind of cooperative were workers got to chose upper management.
No they can't both be true. Companies that collapse do not have literal billions to give away. Corporate bankruptcy is not the same as personal bankruptcy. Personal bankruptcy you are going to spend the next 8 years eating ramen. Corporate bankruptcy is more like "I don't think I should have to work anymore but should still have money".
That's how it should be, not how it is.
Most institutions that go bankrupt have lots of assets, it's just that they have even more debts, and debt has various levels of seniority with the most senior debt payed first from whatever assets the company has, then if any assets are left the next more senior debt paid from them and so on until there are no more assets, and whomever was holding the more junior debt gets nothing (and stockholders are even more junior than any debt, so they usally get nothing).
There are tons of ways to take advantage of such a system (this being the fishy part) some of which are legal (so, even more fishy), and this being a large financial institution (who generally specialize in exactly playing the money game, including tax evasion, avoidance and all sorts of shennenigans) I'm almost sure the compensation for the CEO was made to be senior enough in the debt heirarchy that it ended up high enough that there was still money left from the sale of the company's assets after covering any debt that was even senior to it, to pay for it.
The Finance Industry is a complete total swamp, a politically endorsed swamp even, which is partly why I'm not working in the Industry anymore.
I pulled an old free frisbee out of a box of toys my mom had saved to find it was WaMu branded. Had a little chuckle at the free plastic frisbee outliving them.
Is that the one where the values were on the other side of a Venn diagram without anything in the overlap?
Bunch of text with even a Mission Statement on one side of the cube.
"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair."
- A Tale of Two Cities
I prefer A Sale of Two Titties
I would be really worried about that if I were in the investor class. Then again, I wouldn't like myself very much, so I'm glad I'm not.
They're never worried. An economic downturn is just an opportunity to them.
And what's the worst that can happen to them? "Oh no, instead of having 2 villas I will only be left with 1?"
Chances are they already can choose to not work for the rest of their lives. They will never get into a worse position than the average worker already is in.
What op meant by the downturn being an opportunity is that their cash reserves get used to buy up whatever depressed item exists. Land, buildings, etc.
They aren’t weathering the storm like most, they are buying all the abandoned boats.
I know, I was furthering the point. Even if they "lose", they don't lose.
Gotcha. They’ll have three villas though.
If there are two classes which are top priority for "rescuing" with public money, is Financiers and Wealthy Investors.
It's the small fry that needs to worry, as invariably they're the ones left holding the bag whenever a way overstreched Economy and associated La-la-Land of Rainbows & Ponies Stockmarket finally get pulled back by the reality that there is nowhere near enough real value in total to justifiy the total value implied by all those sky-high asset prices.
So many people's retirements are in the stock market. This would screw over a ton of the working class too.
It did to me, because I have a locked-in pension from a former union job and after I quit I transferred it to my bank … who proceeded to tell me I had no choice but to put it into stocks. As of rn it's finally back up to what I had in 2008.
I fucking hate the stock market.
This is by design. Retirements are more and more tied with risky markets because then the rich can hold everyone else hostage since it's not just them feeling the pain of a market crash. The insanity has to stop at some point or we're all going to be held hostage forever. Regardless, the amount that most individuals actually have is little and often isn't enough to actually retire on anyway.
What's the out that doesn't see you screaming backwards thanks to inflation?
Safer investments like bonds used to be the way, but were subdued by near zero interest rates for so long.
So feudalism it is then?
We've seen this one before - can we skip past the decades of oppression and bloody revolt, and straight back to worker enfranchisement and something resembling a civilised, free, meritocratic society please?
What do you call what we have now, where the rich keep getting richer and everyone else just rents from them? Obviously inflation doesn't stop feudalism.
Late-stage capitalism bordering on neo-feudalism.
I mean technically if you have a retirement fund you are probably invested.
I do not.
Would a crash lower house prices?
Sure, but you won't be able to buy any. Hedge funds will hoover up all of the freed inventory faster than retail buyers can.
Then we nationalize the hedge funds and seize their property through eminent domain. Fuck their economy.
They own the politicians, bruh.
Not if we buy them first!
Oh, wait. Damn.
How do you plan on that happening?
Take power and use it.
No need to get into specifics at this point.
Depending on why it crashed, it might in some areas to some extent. It might also motivate a drop in rates which could cause prices to start spiking upwards. The biggest issue with house prices is supply has been constrained since the GFC, there hasn't been enough housing built to meet demand. Until that changes I wouldn't expect house prices to ever decline significantly or over a sustained period of time.
this last sugar rush was nuts, I'm still bearish but refuse to play anything. S&P chart looks like a meme stock.
Is it edging before bed or ?
I fuckin this thumbnail
Edit: going over some old comments of mime, and I have no clue what I was trying to say here.
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