Americans' ardent support for Israel is palpable in poll after poll showing far greater sympathy for the Jewish state than for Palestinians.

It's evidenced in the vote in the last U.S. Congress to top up American funding for Israel's missile-defence system: a lopsided result of 420 to 9.

So that American backing is not in question; it's a decades-long reality and was just reinforced with the blood-curdling massacre of Israeli civilians by Hamas militants on Oct. 7.

What's less certain is the reaction from one important constituency as Israel expands its counter-offensive in Gaza and as the death toll mounts among Palestinian civilians.

We're talking about the U.S. left. It's virtually the only place in American politics where there might be a debate — over what's acceptable in war, and about a path back to peace.

And signs are emerging of Democrats wanting to pressure Israel into abiding by certain limits in its operation.

  • alvvayson@lemmy.world
    81·
    1 year ago

    Israel is more a liability than an asset. And they are a very expensive liability.

    Egypt and the gulf states are much more strategically important for the USA and Europe. Which is why MBS could brutally murder Kashoggi and still get Biden to come hat in hand for support

    The main, and basicslly only, reason to support Israel is US domestic politics.

    And those attitudes are rapidly shifting.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/07/11/american-views-of-israel/

    • Ducks@lemmy.world
      52·
      1 year ago

      I can't disagree more. Saudi Arabia is absolutely not an ally. Egypt is absolutely not an ally either. They may be strategically important, but the US can basically guarantee loyalty from the Israelis. No such loyalties will be found in Muslim nations. Egypt also does not have a recent history of stability. Israel is also the only "Western" nation in the Middle East.

      Edit: allow me to clarify and see my responses to this. I am wrong in saying they are not allies. We are allies economically and militarily, but the relationship is not the same as the relationship with Israel. For many reasons, and those reasons, some expressed below, are why the US considers Israel the most important ally in the region. HOWEVER, things have been slowly changing in recent years. But how these relationships play out is yet to be seen.

      • alvvayson@lemmy.world
        42·
        1 year ago

        You might want to drink a little less koolaid and research a little more realpolitik.

        When Israel declared independence in 1948, the CIA and other intelligence services advised against recognizing their independence to avoid upsetting Arab allies, but Truman did so because the public opinion was in favor.

        Saudi-Arabia has been by far the most important American ally since the end of WW2, even if it's mostly been an alliance of begrudging mutual benefit instead of one of respect.

        The whole petrodollar world order was built on that alliance.

        • Ducks@lemmy.world
          33·
          1 year ago

          I'm very well read on the subject, thank you. A lot has happened since 1948. Maybe read some more recent history yourself.

          • generalpotato@lemmy.world
            22·
            1 year ago

            Gotta agree with the other guy here. You’re sort of talking out of your ass. The ME en masse is allied with the US or can be an ally to the US if the US didn’t support Israel and took a neutral stance on the Palestine issue. Iran is the only place that is openly against the US but even they have shown the willingness to come to talks were the US had a policy more favorable to peace and stability in the region (ala Obama’s deal with Iran).

            • Ducks@lemmy.world
              11·
              1 year ago

              if the US didn’t support Israel and took a neutral stance on the Palestine issue

              I think we are agreeing with each other? I'm arguing modern relations. If the US did not align so closely with Israel over the last 80 years the situation would be different. But because we did, it is how it is today.

              Edit: if you would, allow me to amend the comment you responded to. I inaccurately stated what I mean. We have alliances with Saudis, we have agreements with Egypt.

              This article articulates the points I would like to make better than I could ever make them. It also agrees that American politics is a driving factor, of course it is. But also explains what I mean about strategically and intelligence wise.

              https://www.vox.com/world-politics/23916266/us-israel-support-ally-gaza-war-aid

              Edit2, the important bit from the article to support my view

              Initially, Israel served as a countervailing force to Soviet influence, but this line of thinking persisted even after the Cold War. And it became even more pervasive after 9/11, when it was discovered that some of the perpetrators of the attack were citizens of Saudi Arabia, which the US counted as another key ally in the region. Doubting that it could continue to rely on the Saudis, the US leaned more heavily on Israel based on the perception that it had more shared values and interests. That includes a shared commitment to democracy, though Netanyahu’s undemocratic plan to overhaul the Israeli judiciary has recently put that in question.

              “It’s not only a long-standing moral commitment; it’s a strategic commitment,” then-Vice President Biden said in 2013. “An independent Israel, secure in its own borders, recognized by the world is in the practical strategic interest of the United States of America. I used to say … if there were no Israel, we’d have to invent one.”

              there are also some good books on the subject I can recommend.

      • PugJesus@kbin.social
        21·
        1 year ago

        They may be strategically important, but the US can basically guarantee loyalty from the Israelis.

        Sure, all you have to do is endure American citizens getting domed for the crime of being journalists, paying spies to fetch US nuclear secrets, sabotaging US diplomatic efforts, selling US secrets to China, etc etc etc.