The loss of life is tragic, but I’m not sure what she’s upset about. Tourists didn’t come there to mock or make light. They just have bad timing in paradise.
Tourism will play a huge part in helping the community recover economically too. They’re going to need tourists to stay/come back asap. I thought the Greek president was canny to offer tourists affected by the wildfires in Rhodes a free holiday next year.
I hear the challenge right now is that even before the fire there was a housing shortage. Tourists should not travel to Hawaii right now if those hotel beds can instead be used to shelter displaces people near term.
Ya exactly. “It’s okay if a local people are exploited by industry and country. It helps the economy” is such a terrible take and I genuinely don’t know why people here are defending it
I was thinking more along the lines of a large proportion of locals must work in the tourist industry - whether that’s owning hotels, working in them, owning touristy shops, tour guides, surf instructors etc etc. The locals haven’t just suffered loss of life, property and sites of historic importance, a lot of them will lose their jobs without tourism. “Economy” was the wrong term I guess. People need those jobs not just to live but to rebuild their lives and their property.
I’m hoping that the Hawaii and Maui gov’ts don’t allow rich people to grab the land afterwards, instead allocating all of it to traditional Hawaiian people.
I don’t think destroying the Hawaiian economy would help the homeless problem in Hawaii. If anything, what needs to be happening is that the Hawaiian government needs to set up temporary housing and support rebuilding efforts.
Tourists should not travel to Hawaii right now if those hotel beds can instead be used to shelter displaces people near term.
I am not saying there should not be any tourism. I am saying that near term, there is likely a shelter need that needs to be addressed. Putting tourism on hold for a few months won’t kill tourism. Hawaii shut down for the pandemic and had very strict Covid requirements as the world re opened. I think it can shut down for a few weeks until more aid and support arrives and is built.
Oh, sorry, I misunderstood you. Yeah, for a few weeks, absolutely, the government should be buying up vacant hotel rooms in bulk while they arrange temporary housing
NP. My take was very quick and short. I think tourism will likely always be a big part of Hawaii’s recovery, and will help the recovery. But I just want to know that the workers and people that live in hawaii have roofs over their heads when things re open.
I mean we can all sympathise. We know why she’s upset. If she took more than a couple of minutes to calm down, she’ll argue herself that the country needs tourists and that they can’t be blamed for wanting to make the most of their holidays.
Out of personal experience, it’s incredibly frustrating to see people happy and smiling when your whole world is collapsing around you. It’s irrational but it makes sense.
The companies who sold them a vacation should have refunded everything and apologized, but you don’t see anyone pointing that out.
I get it, but if they’re upset, I still wouldn’t be able to afford to flush a Hawaiian vacation for any reason and I don’t think even the people who are swimming can afford it. I would be respectful by sticking to places that didn’t just have a wildfire, but if it’s going to cost me $10,000 USD (a year’s income to me, this is purely hypothetical and I don’t know the actual cost of a Hawaiian vacation but it sounds expensive) then I can’t do much more without endangering my own financial stability. Remember, $10k is 2/3 of a new car’s sticker price, the part that indefensible is that the area burnt to the ground and a couple dozen (according to the camera footage) horrible people were swimming there.
That’s an insane estimate lol. That’s how much Maldives would be at a nice hotel.
This year it cost $5000 total for my package with 2 people in Kauai and we went expensive. Last year it was closer to $3000 for flights and hotel in Oahu.
Fair enough. Just note that I didn’t make a typo when I said I make the equivalent of just barely 5 digits of income. $3000 isn’t a vacation to Hawaii, it’s a once-every-5-years PC upgrade.
I’m not sure I understand your analogy. Someone making $10,000 is risking their financial stability either way by booking a trip that costs $3-10k. The money is already spent whether they go or not.
I don’t think it’s feasible for tourists that are already there should immediately up and leave. But any tourist who is still flying in should have rebooked elsewhere else. Airlines are offering free changes and hotels usually have flexible cancellations, especially with travel insurance.
The government should have positioned hotels as temporary shelters for Hawaiians that are displaced in this fire.
You don’t just double the cost for more people. The kids wouldn’t be renting their own cars and you could get a room with 2 kings rather than separate rooms.
In any case, the analogy doesn’t make sense because a family that can afford a $10,000 trip (when there are way cheaper options in even in Hawaii) can afford to switch their plans for a fee. They aren’t exactly worried about their financial stability. Airlines were offering to change for free anyways.
That would depend on the age of the kids. You’re right that a $10,000 trip for four would get you just about anywhere in the world, but whether its $5,000 or $500, a trip to Hawaii could be a once in a lifetime experience. Maybe they always dreamed of Hawaii instead of Fiji or Recife or the French Riviera. Nobody could have predicted these specific wildfires (climate scientists notwithstanding) when they were planning their trips.
Airlines were scrambling to provide flights off the island, and while hotels and rental companies are extending refunds now, most are only now doing it in response to this precise backlash.
I’m with you that people should leave the island, and visitors should delay or change their plans. Shit happens, and this sucks for everyone. But the people who have lost their homes, the people who have lost loved ones, they are the ones suffering and they have every right to be angry at the tourism industry that is still catering to clients above supporting relief efforts. Their anger is far more effective directed at the right people. Getting angry at crowds of tourists is like getting angry at the wildfire itself: understandable, but ineffectual.
The loss of life is tragic, but I’m not sure what she’s upset about. Tourists didn’t come there to mock or make light. They just have bad timing in paradise.
Tourism will play a huge part in helping the community recover economically too. They’re going to need tourists to stay/come back asap. I thought the Greek president was canny to offer tourists affected by the wildfires in Rhodes a free holiday next year.
I hear the challenge right now is that even before the fire there was a housing shortage. Tourists should not travel to Hawaii right now if those hotel beds can instead be used to shelter displaces people near term.
Ya exactly. “It’s okay if a local people are exploited by industry and country. It helps the economy” is such a terrible take and I genuinely don’t know why people here are defending it
Is it always exploitation? Couldn’t an argument be made that tourists in tourist areas are the ones being exploited?
@NewNewAccount @tdawg
No.
No what? We’re not making the same argument.
@NewNewAccount
You asked two questions.
No responds to both.
I was thinking more along the lines of a large proportion of locals must work in the tourist industry - whether that’s owning hotels, working in them, owning touristy shops, tour guides, surf instructors etc etc. The locals haven’t just suffered loss of life, property and sites of historic importance, a lot of them will lose their jobs without tourism. “Economy” was the wrong term I guess. People need those jobs not just to live but to rebuild their lives and their property.
@SomeoneElse @tdawg
I’m hoping that the Hawaii and Maui gov’ts don’t allow rich people to grab the land afterwards, instead allocating all of it to traditional Hawaiian people.
I mean it’s already being reported in the news that this is a fear.
https://fortune.com/2023/08/13/maui-wildfire-destruction-locals-fear-rebuilding-will-favor-rich-outsiders/?ref=biztoc.com
I don’t think destroying the Hawaiian economy would help the homeless problem in Hawaii. If anything, what needs to be happening is that the Hawaiian government needs to set up temporary housing and support rebuilding efforts.
I am not saying there should not be any tourism. I am saying that near term, there is likely a shelter need that needs to be addressed. Putting tourism on hold for a few months won’t kill tourism. Hawaii shut down for the pandemic and had very strict Covid requirements as the world re opened. I think it can shut down for a few weeks until more aid and support arrives and is built.
Oh, sorry, I misunderstood you. Yeah, for a few weeks, absolutely, the government should be buying up vacant hotel rooms in bulk while they arrange temporary housing
NP. My take was very quick and short. I think tourism will likely always be a big part of Hawaii’s recovery, and will help the recovery. But I just want to know that the workers and people that live in hawaii have roofs over their heads when things re open.
I mean we can all sympathise. We know why she’s upset. If she took more than a couple of minutes to calm down, she’ll argue herself that the country needs tourists and that they can’t be blamed for wanting to make the most of their holidays.
Out of personal experience, it’s incredibly frustrating to see people happy and smiling when your whole world is collapsing around you. It’s irrational but it makes sense.
And without tourists Hawaii would probably be even more expensive.
@TragicNotCute @stopthatgirl7
Tourists should have left, like they were supposed to, or not visited days after the fire.
It’s not that hard a choice to make to do the right and kind thing here. But instead those tourists chose the selfish way.
The companies who sold them a vacation should have refunded everything and apologized, but you don’t see anyone pointing that out.
I get it, but if they’re upset, I still wouldn’t be able to afford to flush a Hawaiian vacation for any reason and I don’t think even the people who are swimming can afford it. I would be respectful by sticking to places that didn’t just have a wildfire, but if it’s going to cost me $10,000 USD (a year’s income to me, this is purely hypothetical and I don’t know the actual cost of a Hawaiian vacation but it sounds expensive) then I can’t do much more without endangering my own financial stability. Remember, $10k is 2/3 of a new car’s sticker price, the part that indefensible is that the area burnt to the ground and a couple dozen (according to the camera footage) horrible people were swimming there.
That’s an insane estimate lol. That’s how much Maldives would be at a nice hotel.
This year it cost $5000 total for my package with 2 people in Kauai and we went expensive. Last year it was closer to $3000 for flights and hotel in Oahu.
Fair enough. Just note that I didn’t make a typo when I said I make the equivalent of just barely 5 digits of income. $3000 isn’t a vacation to Hawaii, it’s a once-every-5-years PC upgrade.
I’m not sure I understand your analogy. Someone making $10,000 is risking their financial stability either way by booking a trip that costs $3-10k. The money is already spent whether they go or not.
I don’t think it’s feasible for tourists that are already there should immediately up and leave. But any tourist who is still flying in should have rebooked elsewhere else. Airlines are offering free changes and hotels usually have flexible cancellations, especially with travel insurance.
The government should have positioned hotels as temporary shelters for Hawaiians that are displaced in this fire.
So, like maybe a family of four would be close to $10,000 and that estimate isn’t entirely insane?
You don’t just double the cost for more people. The kids wouldn’t be renting their own cars and you could get a room with 2 kings rather than separate rooms.
In any case, the analogy doesn’t make sense because a family that can afford a $10,000 trip (when there are way cheaper options in even in Hawaii) can afford to switch their plans for a fee. They aren’t exactly worried about their financial stability. Airlines were offering to change for free anyways.
That would depend on the age of the kids. You’re right that a $10,000 trip for four would get you just about anywhere in the world, but whether its $5,000 or $500, a trip to Hawaii could be a once in a lifetime experience. Maybe they always dreamed of Hawaii instead of Fiji or Recife or the French Riviera. Nobody could have predicted these specific wildfires (climate scientists notwithstanding) when they were planning their trips.
Airlines were scrambling to provide flights off the island, and while hotels and rental companies are extending refunds now, most are only now doing it in response to this precise backlash.
I’m with you that people should leave the island, and visitors should delay or change their plans. Shit happens, and this sucks for everyone. But the people who have lost their homes, the people who have lost loved ones, they are the ones suffering and they have every right to be angry at the tourism industry that is still catering to clients above supporting relief efforts. Their anger is far more effective directed at the right people. Getting angry at crowds of tourists is like getting angry at the wildfire itself: understandable, but ineffectual.
Are tourists being offered refunds on their flights and lodging?
@Staccato
Have you asked the airlines?