President Joe Biden and Chinese President Xi Jinping agreed that China would crack down on the production and exporting of fentanyl and the precursor chemicals used to make it, according to media reports.
But while Biden is painting the agreement as a win that will “save lives”, drug policy experts told VICE News they’re skeptical the measure will curb the overdose crisis—and it may make the drug supply worse.
Biden and Xi met Wednesday in San Francisco, where both leaders were in town for the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit. According to the New York Times, China will go after the exporting of illicit fentanyl into the U.S. and the manufacturing of precursor chemicals, which are being used to make fentanyl and smuggle it into the country from Mexico.
Oh no. Better keep that Fenty coming, or else other drugs might take its place.
I mean clearly there’s systemic issues driving people to seek this stuff, just removing fenty without addressing those means they’ll just seek out other things. Realistically we should be legalizing the safer stuff (psychedelics, MDMA, etc) that isn’t as damaging or addicting and raising living standards to combat the harder stuff but in our current state where weed isn’t even legal federally and it’s all treated the same more or less addicts and ODs on hard drugs are going to be the outcome.
I agree with what yr saying but it all makes me think you've never tried, whether on purpose or not, fentanyl.
Fent…makes you absolutely retarded when yr on it, but when you are, you are transported to the warm busom of God til you snap out of it. You don't care about anything, hunger, cold, any trauma, any worries, any stressors. It all melts away for that short amount of time.
Besides the physical addiction sending a need as strong as thirst in the desert, that reprieve from pain is addicting all it's own. A good majority of people actively using and seeking out fent assume they'll die from it, and they're fine with that.
I've never been on the ban drugs train, I think the subjective exploration of consciousness and meta-reality are incredibly important for people, be that in personal mental health and growth, artistically and spiritually. At the same time, I think letting Shamans control the flow isn't a terrible idea, but if implemented should also come with an end date after society comes to terms with itself. I think terminal patients should be given as much DMT as they want for as long as they want it, it's like making practice runs at the other side. I think ibogaine should be widely available for resetting addictions back to null, but that should prob be a guided trip, same thing with ayehuasca.
But fent shouldn't be allowed outside a medical setting. The opioid receptor is devil in a red dress; dance with the devil, devil don't change, devil changes you.
In a kinder society we would prescribe meds that turn off pain receptors, like the ones developed from jellyfish and other neurotoxins, but that would prob be stipulated with forced, active restraint bed rest. We don't use those now because pain let's us know when we push too far, otherwise we'd just keep reinjuring ourselves. But fent gives that absence of pain too, and coupled with the i-cant-stress-how-extreme-cravings people will look at the work necessary to holistically end their pains and just say, nah man. At the cost of everything. Parents abandoning children. Cuz once their high, they don't care. So they just plan to stay forever high.
I'm all for banning fent.
It's the embodiment of my second favorite malaphor "build a man a fire and he's warm for a night, but set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life"
Fent…makes you absolutely retarded when yr on it, but when you are, you are transported to the warm busom of God til you snap out of it. You don’t care about anything, hunger, cold, any trauma, any worries, any stressors. It all melts away for that short amount of time.
That may be true recreationally, but I had it in the ER when I had a kidney stone and all it did was take away the pain and make me drowsy.
The difference is need. Itll work the pain first, what's leftover will work towards the high
Good health/no pain= to the moon 🚀
Also, I'm happy it helped you. It can be fantastic in a clinical setting.
deleted by creator
Yeah both my wife and I don't get much effect from opiates when we are prescribed them and don't get how folks can become addicted to them. I think different folks just react differently. I guess we are lucky to have the meh effect from them.
I was glad it took away the pain, but yeah, they don't do anything for me that would get me addicted to them. The constipation is the worst part.
Are you or your spouse redheads by chance? People with red hair have an inherent genetic tolerance.
I wonder if it's the higher percentage of Neanderthal DNA.
Smokers also require more pain meds, not just the opiates but the -caines as well.
I have strawberry blonde hair and smoke. Any pain meds and me is like, 'turn it all the way up Dentist' or 'yea, Vicodin does nothing. That bottle is like 2 doses.'
I landed me a debilitating repetitive injury from work, and besides taking a lateral move, I needed pain meds just to function. The pain would spread from my shoulder/back/arm up my neck into my brain. I'm talking rapid onset migraines where I'd go blind.
First time, I was driving.
Not fun.
I didn't know that could even happen. Regardless, I needed help to work, then without them Id withdraw and be unable to work. Right down the slippery slope I went. Got to a point where I just said no more, idc what happens, took 10days off work, sat at home with 30 boxes of donuts, various one step meals, 20 gallons of choc milk and otter pops. Told myself, and everyone else, i was sick. I refused to make any decisions besides what to eat that was in the building for the entire time as I considered my mind compromised and sus.
I am exceptionally willful tho and can compartmentalize like it's the ADHD Olympics. Results will vary. I do not recommended the experience. 0/10. Dengue fever in a foreign land where I speak 0.5% of the language was more pleasant.
What are your thoughts on maintenance therapy and medical detox, i.e. with Suboxone?
Thanks for writing this up. This is the kind of comment I used to be on the lookout for on Reddit, so this is making Lemmy feel like it's going to be able to fill that old niche for me.
Excellent way with words!
Sorry if I wasn’t clear, I 100% get trying to reduce fentanyl my response was more a complaint that we seem to always do these half measures but yes trying to get fentanyl gone is a good thing. I’ve done many drugs but thankfully never fent.
Joe Biden: Cures cancer.
Media: "How are we going to feed Joe Biden's surplus population?"
They have shittier, cheaper drugs to pump tbh. Various vice documentaries show how redacted ass dealers mix in whatever they can get their hands on. The way third world countries do their drugs might come to the US, and I don’t think anyone has yet to realize how cushy the drug scene really is up here.
Recent documentary covers a drug called Tusi, which is meant to sound like 2C, as in 2C-B. It is everything except 2C-B. A mixture of fentanyl meth ketamine and whatever they feel like on that day. People absolutely love it. Do they care about what’s really in it? No.
If you want to end your life and turn it into abhorrent trash, what is stopping you from walking downtown and finding a cool cat in the alley selling horse?
Personally think the war on drugs is fucked, when you’re talking about stoner Doug. No one deserves the butt of a rifle for pot. But hey, I don’t think anyone minds when the local fent dealer disappears.
Hear me out guys.
As a society, or the one we want at least, we’re supposed to care for each other.
I personally think they should ramp up the war on opiates. Mass terror on those who enable the illicit use of them. All it does is kill our communities and stifle the flourishing ones.
Weed was proof that the war on drugs was trash. We know that unlike opiates, smoking pot doesn’t completely reinvent your synapses into a drug seeking rat brain. So we all just collectively decided to throw the whole program away.
Evidently you can’t stop it from coming in through the borders but I feel like we should enable the seeking of domestic sellers. Just to put them in a nice square box, away from hurting others.
I would think we would learn from the first war on drugs. Support of addicts yes, try to police it away no. Counselors not cops.
I am sorry but there is no counseling for the crazies that have eroded their brain away with drugs. There is only prevention for future generations.
There’s no price you could pay me to rehabilitate the people that throw feces and yell at passerby’s. Too much risk.
A big reason addicts turn to street drugs is because of the healthcare systems “blacklist” for drug abusers. Fixing that would help the ones that became addicted because of pain relief false advertising, get the help they need.
But what do we do about the people that have reached the point of no return?
The conversation changes dramatically when you have seen the depravity inside a State of California Public Restroom.
The people who are that severely damaged by drugs* are a small percentage. I've only seen a handful who got that bad because of drugs (I'm a professional in the field). Most addicts can benefit from appropriate care and could become functional members of society again if they had proper support - which our system grossly lacks.
*Most cases of persistent psychosis aren't drug-induced; most of those throwing feces have psychosis from some other cause, which can also be treated with varying levels of success. Drug-induced psychosis is most of the time transient, and subsides as the drug wears off.
so what the solution. lock em up. kill them?
No mate. We need to have places dedicated for the permanent care of these people. As in live-in psych wards. I’m tired of seeing streets covered in needles and homeless people shitting in broad daylight.
Some people consider this as locking them up. But what else? You want to fight over who gets the park bench spot with the rabid man?
I mean we used to have psychiatric facilities but due to abuses they just sorta got rid of them (well and the lower taxes god) instead of regulating them better.
There’s some great YouTube videos about a Mexican forced rehabilitation group that picks up people that are fucking up in life and humiliates them and forces them into rehab. 
Later on they seem to be liking sobriety and appreciative, so I don’t see what’s wrong with picking up a couple of junkies nodding out in public, giving them narcan to ruin their day, and then kick the living recovery into them, then force them to eat nothing but beans and rice for 3 months. Then keep them on a short leash.
It’s full of camaraderie and think that it’s a good starting point for those that couldn’t find purpose elsewhere.
A couple of junkies who are nodding out in public still have the same rights to freedom and self determination as anyone else. You're just advocating for more of the same war on drugs, brutalising marginalised people. After so many years it should be obvious that shit does not work.
Not quite the same but NPR interviewed a guy who used to basically live in this open air drug market in california and he got incarcerated and he said it saved his life by forcing him to go cold turkey.
And suddenly everyone learns about carfentanyl
deleted by creator
Almost like we need to legalize drugs instead of continuing to play this failed game. You'd think people never opened a history book to the 1920s USA.
Never try to do anything good because bad might inadvertently result from the action.
I mean. isn't there some stronger thing that recently sorta took its place already?
Well there is Tranq which is Fentanyl + Xylazine which is a cattle tranquilizer. That shit is truly scary, and like krokodil (sp?) before it, it will rot the flesh right off your bones.
The ultimate problem is people seem unwilling to accept the fact that the new generation cartels are completely in bed with China, and conducting a reverse opium war against the United States.
Jenkem
How about:
Prohibition doesn't work. Never has. Every prohibition effort has failed. Every prohibition effort has done FAR more harm than good. Prohibition efforts are inherently and categorically 100% bad.
Implementing a new prohibition with a Chinese Dictator. WONDERFUL follow up to funding genocide.
Why are Democrats trying SO HARD to get Trump back in office?
I was going to ask why Biden doing stupid things would make people vote for Trump, but then I remembered that the average voter is dumb enough to shoot themselves in the foot to spite their face.
And yes, I'm aware that I've combined two sayings in a way that doesn't make sense.
I was going to answer that Biden doing stupid things would not make people vote Trump, but rather, would disenfranchise people who vote Democrat.
I would say "NoT vOtInG fOr ThE dEmOcRaT iS vOtInG fOr ThE rEpUbLiCaN" is something out of touch boot licking neo-progressives say so they can sound just like Republicans.
I would say as a life long Democrat, I simply cannot vote for genocide, prohibition, the stripping of a union's right to strike, and for attempts to "strengthen our relationship" with someone who is "definitely a dictator" (Biden's words).
All this would force me to vote "no confidence" on the 2 party system, ie: not vote.
But I wasn't asked so I won't answer.
I know that not every vote in the US has equal power, and it sucks that that's the case.
But if you live somewhere that your vote would actually have an impact on the election (like in a swing state), then not voting Democrat is increasing the chances of a Republican victory.
If you think Trump wouldn't be pro-genocide, anti-union, pro-prohibition…then I could see where you're coming from. But if Trump were president during the time those things were happening, would he really have done anything differently or more preferable?
Simplifying the argument: Do you vote for the Douche or the Turd Sandwich?
I vote for neither.
I save my one little spec of positive reinforcement (how ever strong or weak the Douche and the Turd want to make me believe it is) for a Bologna Sandwich.
The reality of the fact is that this country is full of morons entranced in the Douche and Turds rhetoric, so they are going to vote who their brainwashed mommy votes for.
I'll just hunker down, observe the Douche and the Turd do horrible things and hope that one day I might get to vote for an Italian sub (no subtext that Italians are better or anything. I just actually like to eat Italian subs).
Except they're not equal. One is objectively causing more harm. He'd be doing the exact same bad things, and other additional bad things, too.
If voting for the lesser of two evils is the one thing you could do to stop the greater of two evils, not voting means making it easier for the greater evil to win.
Vote for evil or more evil and next time you get super evil or mega evil.
Don't vote for either and good may end up back on the menu.
Here, let's try another aptly American food metaphor.
Last month, the High School cafeteria was offering chicken nuggets and tacos. The tacos were FIRE.
The chicken nuggets are lumps of disgusting pink slime kind of rolled around in flour and dunked for way too long in old unchanged hot oil, not even dried. Just tossed into an immediately soggy paper tray.
The tacos are tortilla, admittedly low quality beef that is browned in a giant frying pan then thoroughly drained, lettuce, tomato, shredded cheese, and a squirt of sour cream.
Half the cafeteria (somehow) prefers the pink slime Grease balls, the other love the tacos.
Half line up to pay 2.50 each for the slime balls, Half line up to pay for the tacos.
This month, the offerings are chicken nuggets and pork nuggets.
The pink slimeball food workers had a much easier time of it.
Pink slime ball. Flour. Unchanged Grease. Paper tray.
So the other line said "why should I wait for the beef to drain? Why should I prep the lettuce. Why should I prep the tomato? Why should I prep the cheese? Why should I learn to ration the sour cream?
That's so much more effort and the Principal is on our asses because the pink slime Grease balls were cheaper.
The Principal took $50k for the school lunch program then made another 2.5k off the students. the pink slime balls cost 5k and the tacos cost 7k, but here we are busting our asses and the Principal is praising the slime ball brigade because they are a better asset in his "Pay for the Principals golf trips" campaign.
As a result, instead of offering those amazing tacos, line 2 is now offering pink PORK slime, prepared exactly the same as the pink CHICKEN slime.
As a hungry student with two dollars and fifty cents, do you buy the slimy chicken balls or the slimy pork balls?
You buy neither.
You go hungry. You go through the line and ask for tacos as loudly as possible, get to the cashier, leave your empty tray, and pocket your 2.50.
Next month, your option will be pink chicken slime balls or tacos.
You get 5 bucks worth of them amazing tacos.
(Metaphor based on a true story. If you were eating lunch at highland high school in 2003, you can vouch).
This sounds like a walkaway hashtag comment.
Ok, hear me out. How bout heavily restricting OxyContin. And suing Purdue pharma to hell
that ship sailed ~ they got the take your billions with you deal…
I thought fentanyl WAS the worst drugs? No drug user, so what's worse than that?
Fentanyl is dangerous because it's so strong that the difference between a survivable dose and one that's fatal is very small. But the drug itself when properly administered isn't harmful and has therapeutic use.
However people with opiate addictions will use pretty much anything to prevent them getting sick, including stuff that can have horrible health consequences. Krokodil comes to mind, or temazepam jellies, but I'm sure there are other examples. Thank fuck I'm clean now.
Worse? Let me introduce you to Krokodile https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4864092/
Fentanyl is dangerous because it is exceptionally potent; for reference, it is cited to be between 50 and 100 times more potent than morphine. It's typically dosed in 100 microgram (mcg) increments, with a potentially fatal dose is around 2mg (2000 mcg).
Carfentanil is around 10000 times stronger than morphine, dosed at 1 mcg increments.
A fatal dose is essentially invisible to the naked eye.
Puts on my Heisenberg voice
"Cracking down" on a drug has never worked. Ever.
Want to have an impact on the drug market? Produce a superior product.
A superior product demands a superior market share.
A superior product that is cheaper than the competitor dominates the market.
Dominate the market and competitors get snuffed out.
Want to stop Fentanyl overdoses? Offer the cheapest, best quality, most stable Fentanyl.
The junkies get a better high and accidental overdoses plummet.
You've got my vote
Aw, shucks.
lol then don’t try anything ever I guess except click here now
"china cracks down on [bad thing], but at what cost?"
Vacuum*
