So, it seems the Israeli government knew something was going to happen and then let it happen so that they could steal more land in response.
WTF is wrong with them.
It's what Jesus wants them to do
Err… Jews aren’t really so big on Jesus friend. I get your point though.
While I also hold this suspicion, there is fairly little evidence of this.
However, I'd say the biggest evidence is that it was literally the 50th anniversary, down to the same holy day, of the last time Palestine forces attacked Israel. The fact that Israel didn't at least have some sort of elevated defense last Saturday is absolutely unforgivable. This is not quite a smoking gun, but definitely at least gun smoke.
There are two possibilities I see. Either Israel knew it was going to happen, and let it, or they didnt know. Both are unfathomably irresponsible, and unforgivable.
Israelis should be tearing their own government apart for their ineptitude and/or treason, and likewise, Palestinians should be tearing Hamas apart for being so stupid and impotent.
No matter what the facts on the ground are, Israel is an incompetent and poorly governed state. Based solely on the demographics and economics, the average Israeli is far more to blame for the current state of affairs, than the average Palestinian — the average Israeli has been alive over a decade longer than the average Palestinian, and the average Israeli is about 20x wealthier than the average Palestinian…
More than 2/3's of Gaza's population are under 30, and the vast majority are not only poor, but poorly educated. Only a few % of the population are over 65. Most developed economies have an over 65 population of 10-20%, including Israel… The stats aren't much better for the West Bank. Essentially, 99% of the Palestinian population have lived their entire existence under Israel's apartheid rule — segregated in either Gaza or the west bank.
Contrast that to Israel, which is a wealthy, well-educated, developed economy; that have maintained similar demographics with the rest of the developed world, and actually far exceed the USA in most statistics related to quality of life and standard of living.
When will the world stop acting like an impoverished, uneducated, largely illiterate non-state — that isn't even recognised by most of the world — populated by children and young adults… Should have it's shit together and act with more wisdom and humility than a rich, educated, developed country; governed by middle aged adults and boomers?
Well put.
Instead, Netanyahu just consolidated an emergency mandate with the support of his opposition on the cabinet, widened the right wing majority on the Knesset (israeli congress) and is about to commit a US sponsored genocide.
Something to the effect of 90% of Israelis hold Netanyahu accountable for this. He'll stick around through the unity government to see the war to its end, but his political future is absolutely dead after this.
I think calling their lack of preparation for something that hasn't happened in 50 years suspicious is a stretch, regardless of whether or not there was an anniversary.
It's not that it's not happened in 50 years, it's that it's the anniversary of an event and it's a big anniversary. Instead of a slightly raised security presence, it was markedly reduced. The US has heightened security every year on key holidays, and the US does't have such an immediate threat right next door. Meanwhile Israel is generally more militaristic as a nation with mandatory service. The lack of defensive forces present on the day is just ludicrous.
it was markedly reduced
I personally haven't seen any actual evidence that it was intentionally reduced for the anniversary specifically. That would be more suspicious if you can provide proof.
There have been plenty of sources that said forces had been moved away from Gaza to the West Bank. In fairness though there were some diversionary attacks by Hamas in the West Bank, also, but many of the gates that were breached seem to have been completely unguarded. Perhaps telling, there has been very little mention of casualties to Israeli defense forces, or even details about where they engaged with the insurgents during the initial attack.
Hamas was also left to run amok for 5 hours and at the end of that were able to cross back over the border with hostages.
How on earth is one of the worlds most powerful militaries caught with it's pants down that badly and how were they not able to organize some kind of a response in 5 hours?
At the very least you'd have expected them to ambush them on the way out and rescue the hostages. They have fleets of drones for pete's sake, they could have taken out every single one of those terrorists with drones to spare.
It makes no sense whatsoever, unless of course they let it happen as a casus belli to once and for all deal with the Palestinian problem.
I'm not going to pretend like I know the ins and outs of Israeli military defense, but none of this sounds like damning evidence. I'm not as eager to jump straight to the "Bush did 9/11" equivalent.
I don't think there is any damning evidence available, one way or the other.
Egypt warned them days before, the USA has confirmed the warning by Egypt. Hamas has released training videos showing the paratroopers training with flying gliders. Yair Lapid released a video in September warning the government was ignoring intelligence signals.
I see a clear picture emerging.
Egypt warned them days before, the USA has confirmed the warning by Egypt.
I'm not so sure on this, I think the US politicians that said this could well be repeating the same single source we've heard. Egypt didn't officially say that they notified Israel, either, that came from a source within Egypt's intelligence services. It may well be true, but I just wouldn't rate those statements as good evidence - as far as I'm aware no one from within the US intelligence community has confirmed it.
You often see reports after a successful attack that "so-and-so warned such-and-such about this-and-that days before attack", but they almost certainly get dozens of warnings a day from lots of sources. Some are right, some are wrong. The attacker only has to be lucky once. The defender has to be lucky every time.
That's not to say that Israel won't capitalise on the chance to flatten Gaza, because I browsed /r/combatfootage and have eyes, but I think they'd rather not have hundreds of Israelis held captive and over a thousand dead.
but I think they’d rather not have hundreds of Israelis held captive and over a thousand dead.
I think the average Israeli wouldn't want that. I also think the ultraconservative faction (which includes most of the current govt) is celebrating this opportunity to seize more land.
It's not the land that's worth it to them (because of 150km² of bombed out city is pretty worthless). They don't need it.
They just seem to like the idea of the Palestinians no longer having it.
Like that will somehow restore their reputation with the Israeli voters they failed to protect.
It's not the land that's worth it to them (because of 150km² of bombed out city is pretty worthless). They don't need it.
They just seem to like the idea of the Palestinians no longer having it.
Fully agree with you on that
Like that will somehow restore their reputation with the Israeli voters they failed to protect.
Sigh… I wish I could be as confident as you there. The far right voters will see it as a victory, and the rest depends on how well they spin the propaganda
Certainly not the first time something like this has happened.
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67082047
Evidence Israel knew / was forewarned about the attacks
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It's the sort of thing there will probably never be hard evidence for, but the circumstantial evidence is in favor of. The symbiosis between HAMAS and the Israeli far-right has been known for years. Here's an old article on the topic: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/06/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-battles-hamas.html
This is also one of the best things that could have happened for Netanyahu right now, as it props him up in power during a period of wartime and allows him to continue staying out of jail.
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I’m not gonna allege specific knowledge of this attack, but there is plenty of evidence that Netanyahu and his cabinet saw continued provocations by Hamas as a key to retaining their power.
Whether he did anything to make it happen, an attack like this was very much on his wish list.
https://www.vox.com/23910085/netanyahu-israel-right-hamas-gaza-war-history
a columnist at Israel’s Ha’aretz newspaper unearthed evidence that Netanyahu has intentionally propped up Hamas rule in Gaza — seeing Palestinian extremism as a bulwark against a two-state solution to the conflict.
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” the prime minister reportedly said at a 2019 meeting of his Likud party. “This is part of our strategy — to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”
…
This is why Netanyahu reportedly saw Hamas rule in Gaza as something of an asset. So long as the Palestinians remain divided among themselves — Hamas in charge of Gaza and the moderate Fatah faction in power in the West Bank — then a peace agreement is likely impossible: You can’t come to a negotiated settlement without a unified negotiating partner. The terrorist threat Hamas poses, on this thinking, can be managed; the endless blockade and periodic military operations, euphemistically called “mowing the grass,” can keep the danger posed by Hamas within acceptable parameters.
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From who?
The people they trade with are sending war ships to support them.
Yeah, my country, Germany, historically doesn't even have much choice but to support Israel. Protests in favour of Palestine are banned in various cities, we will be sending arms to Israel. Our media are drumming that now is not the time to remind Israel of human rights and that that the democracy would surely work it out afterwards.
Jews should feel safe in Germany. We should condemn Hamas. But there is no need to cheer on the extermination of non-Hamas Palestinians in Gaza at the same time.
Between Germany and the UK, we probably bear more blame for what's going on than practically everybody except Israel's government and Hamas themselves.
But what can you do? I don't have any say in what my current government does, let alone one elected 40 years before I was born…
Oh, when it comes to the specific conflict zone, yeah. That's a very British cross to bear.
I hope you get a reasonable government soon. It's so sad how the UK currently looks, the government is too busy being proud of the past to make anything for people to be proud about in the present.
We have to have a general election by 28th January 2025, and the way the polling figures are looking, I wouldn't expect them to call an election much earlier than that.
They're out and they know it. Can't wait. Also not expecting much in the way of immediate change, but hey, at least no more Tories. Until we forget and let them back in again.
Best of luck, I am hoping every day that Starmer isn't doing something silly. Like eating breat. Which is apparently deadly in British politics opposed to riding the country into shit, which is a-ok.
Our media are drumming that now is not the time to remind Israel of human rights and that that the democracy would surely work it out afterwards.
Everything less than a clear win against Hamas will be seen as a sign of weakness by many states in the Middle East.
We should condemn Hamas.
Hamas IS being condemned, rightfully so.
But there is no need to cheer on the extermination of non-Hamas Palestinians in Gaza at the same time.
I have seen no German or International Media that cheers on the killing of Palestinian civilians. None.
There will be deaths of civilians because they are close to Hamas Targets though. This is unfortunately the reality of war - but those deaths are on Hamas.
There will be deaths of civilians because they are close to Hamas Targets though. This is unfortunately the reality of war - but those deaths are on Hamas.
This is such a strange conclusion for me. It rests on the assumption that the IDF never targets civilians on purpose. We know, from documented evidence and 75 years of history, that that is not the case and that Israel never, ever, ever answers to any of the human rights violations it has brought into the world.
Sorry to burst this bubble but the reason there are civilian deaths is because Israel dehumanized Palestinians long ago so killing them now is okay.
This is unfortunately the reality of war - but those deaths are on Hamas.
So the deaths caused by Hamas are on Hamas, and also the ones caused by Israel are on Hamas? Yeah, hold my beer while I totally absolve Israel of any blame despite its track record of war crimes..
I have a question for you: do Palestinians deserve self-determination?
Hamas IS being condemned, rightfully so.
I know. Do you understand why I wrote how I wrote it?
To break it down for you: "This thing that's right. This people that's right. But also this."
It's to let you see these three things on a smiliar level.
Now, then. You also misundstood the cheering part as literal. It is to be taken as encoragement. Our politicians support all of Israel's actions as defense, that includes cutting off electricity, fuel and water, bombing whole blocks which killed among many innocent palestinians UN workers, and the recent announcement for hundreds of thousands of people to relocated within 24 hours.
Just to correct that, one million people are told to evacuate. This is the same amount of people living in all of Stockholm.
The dialogue goes more or less like this:
- Hey, Israel! Don’t do that to the Palestinians! You’re violating international law!
- So? What are you going to do about it?
- …
- Good
So? What are you going to do about it?
"Ahhh, send you more money and weapons I guess."
Hahahahahahahah
Not like they have a lot of reasons to stay, after their land has been stolen, houses bombed, electricity cut off (killing all critical patients including premature babies), water and food supplies stopped, and 100's of children already killed.
Edit: and now getting rained on by white phosphorus (a war crime chemical weapon).
The problem is that you cannot "evacuate" one million people in a day, nevermind doing it safely.The problem is Israel.
They are wading into their own Afghanistan, which is what the attacks appear meant to do.
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Yes I'm sure those 1 million Gaza children deserve to die in the most awful ways, with heir limbs torn to pieces, so that we can stop them from "beheading babies" (which apparently has now been debunked).
Their parents are terrorists who murder babies. They're using their own children as shields. I would support forcible removal but I doubt terrorist sympathisers like you would.
What parents? The average (median) age of a person in the Gaza strip is EIGHTEEN. 18 fucking years. Life expectancy is so short due to the numerous human rights violations by Israel that half the population of Gaza are KIDS. Is there any wonder at all that it's a hotbed of radicalization?
Are you talking about Israelis?
Forcible removal?
Thats his 'Final Solution'
If you've at ever at any point thought you were too smart to fall for the Invading Iraq/Afghanistan shit show of the 00s, this comment is evidence that you would have been 100% on board and calling them freedom fries to boot.
… /s?
