• Furbag@lemmy.world
    1431·
    4 months ago

    Literal last minute decision on this one. SCOTUS is definitely running interference for Trump, without a doubt.

    Biden should declare Trump a national security threat and have him assassinated. That’s an “official act”, is it not? Sure, it helps Biden immensely, but now who is to determine where an official act ends and a private self-serving one begins? Are those two necessarily mutually exclusive?

    • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
      83·
      4 months ago

      Disclaimer: I have no idea what the right move here is. It’s a shitty situation. “How Democracies Die” talks about it in quite a bit of detail, but basically, in the unfolding collapse of a democracy, there’s a terrible temptation to start eroding democratic norms “in kind” in response to their eroding from the fascist side, but this is a mistake. You have to keep fighting on the tilted table without trying to tilt it back, because eroding the norms of behavior plays right into the fascists’ hands and those democratic standards are horrifyingly hard to get back once you’ve broken the seal.

      But, that being said, keeping in mind that this is satire to make a point: I don’t think Biden should have Trump assassinated, or anybody. I do think that it would be a little more directly on the nose if he, as an official act, had Seal Team 6 ambush all the justices that voted for this (as an official act of course), take them with hoods over their heads and in ziptie cuffs to an undisclosed location, and then put up on YouTube the video of someone asking them a few questions in a bare concrete room in that undisclosed location, requesting that they clarify that this is really what they meant. Sort of bring some reality to what is the door they are trying to open, on a personal level, to them. Because I am 100% serious when I say that that is 100% very literally the door they have chosen to open. Sort of a “Let’s close this door back up tight, right brother? Unless you are sure you want to open it? Really, like really for real sure with no backsies?”

      • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
        30·
        4 months ago

        This is something I think about a lot. The best way to defeat fascism is within the process with democracy – because if we start playing by their rules to stop fascism, we prove them right in a sense. It’s preferable to actually letting fascism happen, but it would severely weaken our democracy.

        If voting is not enough, then the next best option would be for Biden to pull his own Jan 6 and refuse to certify the results and call in Seal Team 6. And then after doing so, order his own arrest for violating our laws and norms. The only way to preserve democracy after taking steps outside of democracy is to fall on your own sword.

        It’s like an alternate universe within the DC universe – the Joker goes too far and Batman snaps his neck. When he arrives at the police, he carries the Joker’s body and tells them to arrest him. Batman knew it was necessary to kill Joker, but he also knew he had to be held accountable for doing that. Any group which uses violence to end the fascist threat needs to turn themselves in afterwards to preserve peaceful democracy. It would be incredibly unfair to them, but it’s necessary to prevent a new normal of violent anarchy.

      • batmaniam@lemmy.world
        14·
        4 months ago

        If only. That would be amazing and thank you for the dream, but they’ve all got private security, I don’t see how this could be done without someone being shot, which changes the whole context and would make it something that could be spun to easily.

        But it brings up the whole issue doesn’t it? The court feels they will never have to deal with the consequences of any of this. Surely a trump-style president would never come after them.

        Damnit, we’ve been to this movie.

        • Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
          61·
          4 months ago

          Just do it publicly then, right after court ends. Just detain them, and their body gaurds if you need to.

      • disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world
        8·
        4 months ago

        SCOTUS cleverly ruled that bribery was legal before granting immunity. Otherwise, Biden could just officially order the DOJ to investigate SCOTUS for corruption.

        They were careful about their order of rulings.

    • die444die@lemmy.worldEnglish
      62·
      4 months ago

      It even says so in the dissent.

      “When he uses his official powers in any way, under the majority’s reasoning, he now will be insulated from criminal prosecution. Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune,” Sotomayor wrote.

    • STUPIDVIPGUY@lemmy.worldEnglish
      249·
      4 months ago

      He won’t because Biden is a pussy. He’s just gonna lay back and let Trump have what he wants.

      • nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        74·
        4 months ago

        Yep the dems wouldn’t dare try to use this ruling to their advantage and then they blame everyone else when they lose and Republicans use every ruling to their every advantage.

    • AdamBomb@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
      5·
      4 months ago

      I think they are relying on the scruples that most normal, adjusted people have to prevent him from doing just that. But from a completely outcome-based perspective, I kind of think it might be the best move to try to buy time to try to start fixing this compromised court and the damage they’re wreaking

  • NegativeNull@lemmy.world
    99·
    4 months ago

    From the Sotomayor dissent, which is joined by both Kagan and Jackson: Today’s ruling “reshapes the institution of the Presidency” and “makes a mockery of the principle . . . that no man is above the law.” The decision “gives former President Trump all the immunity he asked for and more. Because our Constitution does not shield a former president from answering for criminal and treasonous acts, I dissent.”

    The President of the United States is the most powerful person in the country, and possibly the world. When he uses his official powers in any way, under the majority’s reasoning, he now will be insulated from criminal prosecution. Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune.

    Sotomayor does not use “respectfully” with “dissent” here or at the end of her dissent, which concludes: “With fear for our democracy, I dissent.”

    • lennybird@lemmy.worldEnglish
      181·
      4 months ago

      The people who need to read this are either the psychopaths who implemented the strategy to get these conservative hacks on the court, or the grossly gullible base too illiterate to find let alone comprehend this dissent.

    • BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world
      35·
      4 months ago

      Whatever he does he needs to put this into effect now. The only way we’ll get this Congress to reign in Presidential power is if they think it will hinder Biden.

      • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
        17·
        4 months ago

        This isn’t a bad 4D chess move. Trick Republicans in Congress to heavily limit the power of the president to neuter this decision.

        • BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world
          17·
          4 months ago

          Petty politics is basically all they know at this point. Tell them noses are totally woke and they’ll start cutting off their own.

    • Delusional@lemmy.world
      33·
      4 months ago

      Presidential act that states the supreme Court has been infiltrated by corrupt officials, remove them all from office, and replace them with uncorrupt officials with oversight. Don’t worry supreme court, you said he could fucking do it if he wants to.

  • theprogressivist @lemmy.world
    67·
    4 months ago

    Took 7 fucking months to kick this back to the lower court for a ruling we all kind of expected (can’t really trust SCOTUS to do anything good). Exactly why Smith wanted this Streamlined in December.

  • just_another_person@lemmy.world
    47·
    4 months ago

    Planned to the last second of the last day of the session to prevent them having to definitively call him a fucking traitor. Fuck these assholes.

  • Rapidcreek@lemmy.world
    40·
    4 months ago

    I officially declare that the Democratic offices at the Watergate Hotel must be searched for national security purposes.

    • Delusional@lemmy.world
      18·
      4 months ago

      I hope he declares the supreme court corrupt and a threat to our democracy and removes them all from the office to replace them with not shitty people. Because they are currently a large threat to our democracy. They said he could do it.

  • Rapidcreek@lemmy.world
    37·
    4 months ago

    New York Times: “The bottom line practical effect of the court ruling appears to be that the trial judge in Washington, Tanya Chutkan, is going to have to hold an evidentiary hearing on many, if not most, of the allegations in the special counsel’s indictment of Trump. That hearing will delve into the question of whether the allegations were based on official acts Trump took as president or unofficial ones.”

    “That process is going to take time. How much time remains unclear at this point.”

    • kescusay@lemmy.worldEnglish
      242·
      4 months ago

      And that, right there, was the goal. This decision, rather than clarifying anything, intentionally muddied the waters - and treads awfully close to turning the presidency into a monarchy - in order to allow Trump to drag things out even more. They really, truly do not want him to face any sort of justice for January 6th before the election, and they hope the election will result in him never having to face justice at all.

      I don’t care if you fucking hate Biden, people… Vote for him like democracy depends on it, because it fucking does. This is not a dress rehearsal. There will be no do-overs. If you let Trump become president again, America is done.

    • just_another_person@lemmy.world
      272·
      4 months ago

      Lol. Have you been reading about this case at all and seen who is at the helm of this case? It’s Maga bullshit all the way down.

      • TransplantedSconie@lemm.ee
        151·
        4 months ago

        I’m talking about the classified document case. I probably should have clarified that. There are so many of them lol

          • someguy3@lemmy.world
            13·
            4 months ago

            I didn’t even have to open that to see that’s the documents case. This post was about immunity for trying to overturn the election. Different cases.

            • just_another_person@lemmy.world
              44·
              4 months ago

              No, she (Cannon) literally mentioned she was waiting for a decision on this case as well since some of the evidence showed he had people stealing documents BEFORE he left office.

              The DC judge (Chutkan) related to this won’t fuck around due to this ruling, and is even somewhat empowered by it since it puts more power in her hands. I don’t think they can fast track it though, so that sucks.

              • someguy3@lemmy.world
                42·
                4 months ago

                Really doesn’t change that you were going on about this case (overturning election case) being maga all the way down, while Cannon is on a different case (documents case).

                So how is this case (overturning the election) maga all the way down? I’ve not read up on it and if you can fill us in that’d be great.

  • someguy3@lemmy.world
    12·
    4 months ago

    The court analyzed four categories of conduct contained in Trump’s indictment: his discussions with Justice Department officials following the 2020 election, his alleged pressure on then-Vice President Mike Pence to block certification of Biden’s election win, his alleged role in assembling fake pro-Trump electors and his conduct related to the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.

    The court found Trump was absolutely immune for conversations with Justice Department officials but returned the case to lower courts to determine whether Trump has immunity for the other three categories.

    The ruling marked the first time since the nation’s 18th century founding that the Supreme Court has declared that former presidents may be shielded from criminal charges in any instance.