I’m much more concerned about unchecked Zionism…
Two things can both be concerning
When one side is being violent and racist against innocent people and then some other people start being violent and racist against innocent people on the “other side” to counterbalance, that’s not a calm or welcoming development for anyone concerned
Except one thing is wiping out an entire people, but so totally the same thing 🤷
Saying that it’s okay if one group of people that someone tried to wipe out, does whatever they want, because of course they’re the victims after all, is exactly how we got to this situation where Israel is creating on Earth a for-real biblical apocalypse and people are trying to defend their right to do so.
Anti-Semitic people would wipe out Jewish people in Israel if the United States withdrew its support of Israel. That doesn’t in any way justify Israel targeting civilians or engaging in genocide, but it’s disingenuous to claim only one side is threatened with annihilation. Nor does it imply that both the threat and the action are “totally the same thing.” Nobody is suggesting that.
Maybe you should not only be concerned with one type of bigotry and not another? Just from an equity standpoint?
I’m concerned with the one causing genocide at the moment, how about you? One seems to be a bit more unchecked and the other seems.to be the buzz word for anyone who dares to question Zionism.
I’m not as stupid as to believe that bigotry and hatred towards jews doesn’t exist.
American Jews are not causing genocide. But it’s telling that you are accusing us of it.
No where did they say anything about Americans…
That’s literally what this article is about. Antisemitism in America.
But Jews are not causing genocide. Israelis, most of which are Jews, are the ones responsible for the genocide.
Jews in the other 194 countries in the world aren’t generally taking part.
Would you say a Chinese person born in Belfast was responsible for the genocide of the Uyghurs? Is a Muslim with Saudi grandparents born in Tokyo responsible for 9/11? Of course not.
Less than half of the world’s Jewish population is Israeli.
I’m much more concerned about unchecked Zionism…
And yet that’s what the reply was too.
So they added an off-topic whataboutism so they could get up on their soapbox? Lol
Yes. And then you suggested it was still Jews and not Israelis that are committing genocide, so thank you for proving my point above. It doesn’t matter how much I am against Israel or how much work I’ve done with Jewish Voices for Peace. I have a big nose and curly hair and no foreskin and that’s enough.
I am Jewish and I am concerned, although the harassment I’ve gotten so far has not been much and only online. It is, at least in part, Israel’s fault by suggesting that it’s the only place for Jews despite the fact that fewer Jews live in Israel than Jews who don’t live in Israel.
I do not support Israel’s apartheid or genocide. I don’t even really want to visit the place unless it was part of a Middle Eastern archaeology tour or something. And yet, more than once, at least once I can recall on Lemmy, I have had to not just justify that (in the same “but do you condemn Hamas” manner), my justification was not accepted.
One person here on Lemmy, a person who I’m fairly certain was not a Jew themselves, actually declared me not Jewish because I live in the U.S. Which is just another form of antisemitism.
Regardless, I’m not apparently allowed, by a significant number of people, to identify as a Jew and not support Israel. And that includes a significant number of Jews who I have to deal with as an internal problem. But at least they aren’t also saying overtly antisemitic things.
Now… that said:
This goes way beyond Israel. A significant number of white people (by no means a majority) do not consider Jews white. Jews are an “other.” You need look no further than Elon Musk’s “you have said the actual truth” reply to the person saying that Jews oppressed white people. It’s “the actual truth” because I’m not white to someone like Elon.
I’m white. I benefit from every bit of white privilege every other white American benefits from. No cop is ever going to pull me over on suspicion of being white. No hiring manager is going to turn me down because I have a name that doesn’t sound white. My skin is practically lighter than Morticia Adams’. But to Elon, and others, I am not white.
And all of this concerns me. A lot. It didn’t used to much. Then Charlottesville happened and I found out that “Jews will not replace us” was considered by a lot of people to be an acceptable thing to chant in America.
a person who I’m fairly certain was not a Jew themselves, actually declared me not Jewish because I live in the U.S. Which is just another form of antisemitism.
Antisemitism (or, more accurately, ‘Judeophobia’) is being bigoted against someone because they are Jewish. What that person said to you was not antisemitism, it was just stupid.
Overusing and misusing (sometimes intentionally- à la Israel) that accusation dilutes it’s severity and makes people more likely to handwave actual incidents of discrimination and bigotry, which is not good my Squid.
I don’t think you understand what bigotry is.
You certainly do not get to tell me what I consider to be a bigoted slur against me.
And don’t make it sound like I’ve never experienced worse. I’ve experienced far worse.
But yeah, sure, I own a home so that makes it all fine (I don’t own a home, my non-Jewish wife does).
Edit: By the way, trying to invalidate my experiences by only addressing one small issue in my post and acting like that means it’s all in my head is fucking rude.
You ok? You jumped straight into imagined victim mode. I never said or implied any of the things you’re defending yourself against, and I don’t believe they are true.
I read and generally like your comments, and I don’t think you think that your personal experience invalidates statistics. Are you stressed out or something?
No harm meant.
imagined victim mode
Thank you for proving my point.
No harm meant
And yet you think my experiences were imaginary.
Sharply more Americans than 20 years ago say antisemitism is a very serious problem, as Jewish Americans’ reports of poor treatment exceed those of other faith groups.
This is very deeply concerning, especially since Jewish-Americans, statistically speaking, are more likely to be friendly to the Palestinian cause and critical of the Israeli government than non-Jewish Americans. It suggests that there’s more than just the element of “CRITICISM OF ISRAEL IS ANTISEMITISM” peddled by Israeli simps.
I don’t know where you are getting the notion that American Jews are likely to support the Palestinian cause.
The polling shows that a large majority of (62%) American Jews think the response by Israel is acceptable. They also support funding weapons to Israel to carry out the atrocities against Palestinians.
Based on the exchange I am having on Fediverse, these American jews supporting Palestine appear to be doing it as gesture because they see how untenable supporting Israel publicly is getting.
Actions speak louder than words and this comment section speaks for itself.
Sharply more Americans than 20 years ago say antisemitism is a very serious problem, as Jewish Americans’ reports of poor treatment exceed those of other faith groups.
It seems like the Jewish Americans are just reporting it more.
The number of hate crimes reported to police in the nation’s 10 largest cities rose again in 2023, according to preliminary data released Friday from the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University.
…
New York and Los Angeles saw some of the largest increases in anti-Jewish hate crimes, rising 12.6% and 48% respectively, while Los Angeles and Chicago saw 40% and 300% increases in anti-Muslim hate crimes, according to the study.
Yeah well I was less scared when people weren’t openly hating my neighbors for being Jewish
Are these concerns borne out by actual data on hate crimes?
The number of hate crimes reported to police in the nation’s 10 largest cities rose again in 2023, according to preliminary data released Friday from the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University.
The annual study found at least 2,184 hate crimes were reported across New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, Philadelphia, San Antonio, San Diego, Dallas, and Austin last year, an increase of nearly 13% from 2022 driven in part by upticks in anti-Jewish and anti-Muslim attacks amid the ongoing Israel-Hamas war. A larger analysis of 25 American cities found hate crimes increased an average of 17% from 2022, according to the study.
“The top 10 cities generally match what’s going to happen nationally,” said Brian Levin, professor emeritus and founder of the Center for the Study of Hate & Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino.
…
New York and Los Angeles saw some of the largest increases in anti-Jewish hate crimes, rising 12.6% and 48% respectively, while Los Angeles and Chicago saw 40% and 300% increases in anti-Muslim hate crimes, according to the study.
“It just explodes after October 7,” Levin said, referencing the day Hamas-led militants killed 1,200 Israelis and took more than 240 hostages.
Levin said the data indicates national FBI hate crime data will also likely show a record number of anti-Jewish hate crimes when it is released later in the year. He said anti-Muslim hate crimes could also reach their highest levels since the last peak between 2015 and 2017.
Israel is committing savage war crimes but has anyone thought about the jews outside of the Israel?
China is committing genocide against the Uyghurs. Does that mean people shouldn’t be concerned about bigotry against Asian-Americans?
There is a time and place for everything… flooding news with “antisemitism” on the rise is a dilatory operation for the benefit of the genocide conducted by Israel.
Bad faith behavior should not be rewarded and should be called out for it is.
With that being said, no person should have to suffer bullshit but we all do, every day. Nothing special about being Jewish there unless you think that a jewish person within US suffers more prejudice than others.
Yes. The time and place to confront hate is the time and place where hate is. And that is true whether or not there is an unrelated genocide on the other side of the world. For the same reason I gave about Asian-Americans and Uyghurs. The genocide there is happening right now. That does not lessen bigotry that other Asians suffer in other parts of the world or make it less worth talking about.
Comparing what china is doing as a UN security counsel member with some black guy in NYC knocking an asian granny is a bit disingenuous… similar to what is happening with Israel and “antisemitism” fake news campaign.
Comparing them how? Comparing genocide to bigotry? I’m not. I’m saying both need to be talked about.
Antisemitism is real. I’ve personally experienced it many times. It has nothing to do with Israel on my end because I don’t support Israel.
Prejudice is real, antisemitism is just a small subset of that also… within US we have other groups of people who are face a lot more of it vis a vis domestic jewish population
But all we hear since Oct 7, is about this specific issue…
It is dilatory and it is bad faith behavior by the media cartel.
within US we have other groups of people who are face a lot more of it vis a vis domestic jewish population
Is it a ‘who gets treated worse’ contest? Isn’t all bigotry equally bad?
But all we hear since Oct 7, is about this specific issue…
All you hear, maybe. I hear about all kinds of bigotry. For example, the multiple articles about how Trump is being incredibly racist that come out on a virtually daily basis and they say nothing about Jews.
It is dilatory and it is bad faith behavior by the media cartel.
Or is it that you just don’t want to hear about it? That sounds like it’s the real issue.
Yeah, but you’ve acknowledged that antisemitism charges in the media are often being used disingenuously to discredit antizionism/support Israel’s genocide. So in some cases it is less worth talking about: when it’s disingenuous and the impact is to support the genocide.
Like do we really think this change in belief is mostly due to people out talking to their Jewish neighbors about rising use of slurs or threats rather than well-publicized accusations from mainstream newspapers and the president of the United States, often with questionable accusers and/or little evidence? Is the most likely outcome for a campaign to highlight antisemitism going to be increased public awareness and intervention, or just to turn public sentiment against antiwar protesters and enable more brutal responses?
So in some cases it is less worth talking about: when it’s disingenuous and the impact is to support the genocide.
That is not what the person I am talking to is saying. They aren’t saying it is a some cases issue. They are saying it shouldn’t be discussed at all and there reasons are that other people get treated worse than Jews are treated and that Palestinians are the victims of genocide. Neither of those are a reason not to discuss actual bigotry that happens against Jews and all other minority groups.
Suggesting any form of bigotry can just be ignored because something more important is going on in another place is ludicrous- unless you mean to suggest that the reason it can be ignored is that the people who are the subject of that bigotry deserve it because they are responsible for that more important thing. I assume you don’t think that. I can’t say the same for the person I was replying to.
But the issue is we’re rarely discussing actual forms of bigotry in the news stories that then feed into these poll numbers. We’re hearing that Joe Biden or the ADL says there’s rampant antisemitism at protests, but then they don’t detail what they’re actually referring to and the college paper actually on the ground interviews some Jewish protesters who are unperturbed by “from the river to the sea”, explain that they were blocking all students regardless of faith or ethnicity, and just find the accusation confusing.
Their comparison point for the poll was 2003, but would you expect a poll held in the aftermath of Tree of Life to be lower or higher than the current time? And what percentage of those poll respondents would say antisemitism is worse on college campuses or conservative Facebook groups? I think we’re getting a true and correct belief (“antisemitism is a problem”), but due to propaganda campaigns for the genocide, not actual increased awareness of bigotry.
If the media is tacking on “antisemitism is rampant” on every news story reporting on anti-Israel protests, but don’t feel it’s necessary when Republicans welcome in proponents of the Great Replacement Theory with open arms, it’s hard to say the effect is actually increasing the awareness of bigotry. FFS, Elise “Great Replacement” Stefanik was the poster child for the Republican antisemitism task force and I only saw it mentioned in the most progressive media. And if the primary effect isn’t raising awareness (one my say making people more “woke”), it’s entirely appropriate to measure the limited or non-existent pro-wokeness impact against the very visible pro-genocide impact.
And yet, long before Israel started this genocide, I have been told that about every news story about antisemitism no matter what has happened.
Even after Tree of Life, which you brought up, I was told that the news was talking too much about that when Palestinians were suffering as if you couldn’t talk about both.
Judeophobia (at least in the UK) is not systemic like racism against blacks is in the U.S.
Jews are more likely to own their homes than the general population (73% versus 64%).
That being said, is any group immune from assault? Even individuals squarely in the power majority, like a heterosexual, native, white, male Englishman, are subject to random assault (verbal and physical), destruction of property etc. not as a result of his personal actions. It seems like Jews as a group have it pretty OK but they want the red carpet rolled out for them or something.
Perhaps it’s one of those things that’s actively measured against, leading to increased reporting? I know that Travellers and Chinese (as just two examples) don’t have access to this kind of infrastructure, so reports against bias toward those groups might be under-represented.
To address Judeophobia we must address the elephant in the room- Zionistic Israel using Jews as human shields to protect themselves from any repercussions of their crimes against humanity. Israel supporters increase polarization between Jews and non-Jews, signaling that anyone against the actions of Israel is against Jews as a group, which is a blatant lie.
There are also “boy who cried wolf” incidents which dilute the severity of bigotry against Jews and are not helping our cause, but those are minimal compared to, for example, organizing an “Antisemitism Awareness Rally” which is just a front for Israeli PR so they can continue their genocide against the Palestinians a little bit longer without losing too much public support.
Not to downplay the fact that some people do discriminate against Jews and that is wrong, but this antisemitism hyper-vigilance against the backdrop of Israel’s actions reeks of McCarthyism, especially considering Israeli hasbara.
Dude, no one is afraid of me. They just hate me because of who my parents were.
Are you talking about the “phobia” part of Judeophobia? It’s not about fear, as in “a phobia”. It means negative attitudes, feelings, or actions towards a group, in this case Jews. Like transphobia isn’t a fear of trans people, it’s a dislike (sometimes intense) of trans people.
EDIT: bro did you just read the first word of my comment and then comment back?!
;)
Okay, if that’s what you mean. Inventing a new word is stupid.
Also, this is the U.S. we’re talking about, not the U.K.
I don’t own a home, I dropped out of college and I don’t have a job.
So are my many, many antisemitism experiences including multiple times I’ve been told this year that I support genocide when I’m working with Jewish Voices for Peace valid enough for you?
Nearly half of Americans now rate it “very serious,”
Americans are significantly less likely to view prejudice against Muslim people as a very serious problem (33%) than to say prejudice against Jewish people is.
Half of Democrats, compared with 18% of Republicans, say anti-Muslim prejudice is a very serious problem in the U.S., as do 30% of independents.I’m a raised-catholic-agnostic democrat of mixed European heritage residing in an American east coast city. I barely have an opinion about Jewish people (see below). I have many Jewish friends which means nothing outside of a few weeks in December. I have never in my 45+ years witnessed anti-semitism. What I have observed in the past year is a strong opposition to the Israeli government and its support by the United States (finally). After 9/11, the anti-Muslim sentiment in this country was so immense that you could taste it in the air. Not to argue this is inaccurate but I just don’t feel that I live in the same reality as what’s being reported here.
The thing I’ve always considered odd about the Jewish population is the strong connection to a place and people and time whom most have never engaged with. It is what it is and I accept it but it’s unfamiliar to me. And it has absolutely no impact on my perception or opinion of any Jewish persons.
The tribalism and skewed perspectives we’re all capable of needs to be tempered.
Hi, I’m a 47-year-old Jew. I’ve witnessed quite a bit of antisemitism. A lot of it directed at me. I’d rather not bring up the memories to give you examples, but you probably wouldn’t believe me if I did anyway, so I won’t.
I appreciate you letting me know and I’m sorry you live with this. I genuinely do not understand it.
It sounds like you live in a fairly liberal area, then, so it makes sense you wouldn’t have personally witnessed much hate against Jewish people. But if you look back in your local news archives, I’m sure you’ll find instances of things like swastikas painted on temples.
I grew up in a liberal college town. A guy firebombed the temple when I was a kid.
Bigotry is everywhere. Against pretty much anyone people can punch down on. Too many sick fucks out there who love to punch down.
When I was in high school, I sat down at the lunch table with entirely new people. We get to taking and learning about one another. Topic turns to religion. I’m Jewish. I say as such.
One of the girls looks at me, thoughtfully.
“You don’t have horns like they said you would”
I’m baffled. I’m almost 14 and had only read about people thinking jews had horns in like, old storybooks.
The test of the lunch table fucking goes off on her.
She’s still thinking. “Guess they lied about jews drinking babies blood then?”
I’m stunned. Blood libel? In 2001???
She was a good kid though. Realized it was lies and changed her world view right then. But still. It’s just. Still happening? It sucks.
Ah, high school bigotry.
I knew a kid in high school who came up to me almost every single day and told me with a big smile that I was going to hell because my people killed Jesus.
Then one day, he came up to me and looked a little sad and said, “we got a new pastor at my church. He says Jews are the chosen people and you’re going to heaven.”
I didn’t think it was worth ever telling him I didn’t believe either place existed.
And while we’re on school, my daughter’s right wing fuck of a sixth grade teacher just started to my daughter about Jews and Judaism unprompted one day. My daughter is half-Jewish, doesn’t ever talk about it, and she’s an atheist. She was really confused how she knew. I know exactly how she “knew.” She took one look at me, saw the nose and the hair, and made a lucky assumption. I might as well have come in with a yarmulke and prayer shawl.
And although I cannot prove it, I suspect that’s why she started getting singled out for little things here and there that other kids weren’t singled out on at all. I had definitely been in that position with my own teachers, so maybe I was being too sensitive on that part, but it felt like it.
I don’t look very Jewish, or so the girl at the table said, so guess I’m lucky there?
Later on (years later) had a fundamentalist Christian at work tell me it was good I’m Jewish because we need to go to Israel to finish the book. (This was awhile ago and exact wording didn’t stick as I was busy working)
She didn’t like it when I said I’m never moving there. Guess it fucks with gods plans if my stupid ass stays in America my entire life.
Maybe They should have planned around that lmao
