I need to upgrade my laptop and one of the things I'm looking for is repairability/upgradability. I've been told thinkpads are good in this respect, how true is that? In terms of replacing batteries and memory, at least. I'm also looking at the frameworks, but those black friday deals are looking alright at lenovo.
With that in mind, any particular series of thinkpad (L, S, whatever) I should look for? I'm hardline against nvidia but is there a reason to pick AMD over Intel (or vice versa)? They both are privacy nightmares, right? And there is no "good alternative?"
Honestly, this used to be the case, but the past couple of years Lenovo is going back to their old ways of sub-par upgradability, and sub-sub-par support across models for Linux. I believe the P-series is the current most compatible line.
You might want to consider getting a slightly older refurb you KNOW is very compatible versus a newer one, because it's a crapshoot. Make sure to avoid any models with soldered memory (they specify on their site), and if you're buying a modern AMD model, do some research and make sure they haven't crippled any features in the BIOS.
If you're not completely sold on Lenovo, look at getting a Framework laptop. It's the most upgradable and repairable laptop of any kind out there.they also just started an outlet online store where they are selling last-gen models at deep discounts that you could upgrade to current Gen when the time comes.
Good luck!
Hey thanks, this outlet store thing may be just what I need! I wanted a framework but didn't want to take out a second mortgage on my house! Lol that's why I was considering Lenovo, black friday deals that I assume aren't going to be on frameworks (but I'm still gonna check fri/mon) but are on the lenovos.
Correct. In the mission statement, Framework says they won't be doing random sales, and prefer to keep prices consistent so customers know they are always getting the lowest price. I'm signed for an AMD 16", but those outlet prices are crazy good, so bought one of the 13" Intels as well to play with 😂
Why not framework? Thinkpads were good but I doubt the new ones follow the same principles.
Can you get a used framework for $200?
If you're willing to repair it I'm sure you could
I have a T580 with nVidia graphics. Repairability is great. You can find a manual with step-by-step instructions for every part online.
But the thermals in that thing are awful. Especially on Linux and doubly so with the GPU. It has some stupid on-lap detection which heavily throttles the system to not burn the user. Up until a few years ago there wasn't a driver for Linux so it always defaulted to on-lap-mode. But even worse, the GPU has some hardcoded 70° limit and it throttles down to the lowest clockrate when it reaches that. And it reaches that quickly because CPU and GPU share a heatpipe.
Nowadays I just run it on the integrated Intel graphics on Wayland and it's great. But it would be cool if I could use the GPU that is at least theoretically able to run Doom 2016 at 30 fps. But practically it struggles with Quake 3.
It's just a shame that you probably won't know about these kinds of problems on a new laptop because people only notice them after a few months to years.
Go with T-Series not with E or L. Better quality of materials, comes with better warranty (you can get up to 5 Years), longer spare parts availability, and usually you can replace more by yourself.
I'd also like to add that between 20 series and 80 series would be the best for build quality (and reasonable performance).
make sure to get the quad core models for >t440p though
True! T series or P series are much better made. I’d also advise heading over to Lenovo support site and checking the service manual for any machine you’re interested in, just to make sure that the features you may want to upgrade are upgradable.
I’ve noticed Lenovo doing a lot of SOC style systems ala Apple where your RAM is one and done. It’s mostly been on the thin/light segment but…
My biggest complaint has been the fact that they don’t put the USB C inputs on a daughter card. I don’t know what the cost savings is, but I literally had two machines that users had killed the USB on that spent close to 10 months waiting on parts for a warranty repair.
It used to be true. Lately though they've been getting less repairable and the build quality has been getting worse too.
Got an E14, easiest laptop to open ever (at least compared to the HPs and Toshibas I had the pleasure to own)
Framework outlet is a great idea. I'll add that I recently came across deals from Dell selling an XPS13 from 2020 for $449 and MSI selling an Intel powered laptop (no discrete GPU, almost office laptop) for $399. The older Thinkpads will be reliable though
The repairability is still good, you can get parts and there's a manual published by Lenovo that will guide you on everything. But upgradability just isn't there anymore. I guess in some of the high end P series like P1, but most have soldered RAM now. The AMD models even have soldered wifi cards. I like my P14s g4 AMD, and also my T14s g3 AMD from work, but I'm really looking forward to the progression of Framework, and also System76's in-house design.
AMD currently tends towards running significantly cooler and quieter, and the graphics in the APU are far better.
Edit: I agree to avoid the E and L series, L is better than E if you absolutely must. But I wouldn't. I'd also avoid the X1, they sacrifice way too much to be thin. The T series is really the sweet spot. T14s is tuned to run cool and quiet, and is only about 1mm thinner than the T14. The T14 is middle ground, and boosts a little more but sacrifices a bit of noise. I really can't tell the build quality between the T14s and T14 in this latest design, the T14s used to use significantly better materials. The P14s is simply a T14 that supports more RAM and boosts even further.
The T16 and P16s are the same relationship at the 14 incher, but with a bigger battery and an offset keyboard with a numpad.
The X13 is the same motherboard as the T14s, but in a 13" design. The T14s and X13 also get dual USB4 on the AMD models, while the T14/P14s only get one. I think that carries over to Intel models with Thunderbolt, but I'm not sure.
The Z series is odd. Better touchpads, sleeker design, AMD only. The Z16 doesn't have an offset keyboard. The Z16 is also the only option for discrete graphics from AMD. But… they're not really Thinkpads, in a traditional sense. The materials aren't as robust, and they sacrifice cooling some for thinness. I'd consider one a lot more than the X1 series, and I'm excited for the redesign in a few years.
The P series is really diverse, from the P14s and P16s that are really just rebadges the T series, to the P1 that is a serious workhorse. There's quite a bit inbetween, but aside from the entry models, they're going to be quite a lot less portable, more power hungry, be louder, and have worse battery. If they're what you need, great, if not, eh.
I chose the P14s gen 4 AMD with 64GB of RAM. I'll run some VMs at times, and the RAM will also help future proof me since I can't upgrade down the road. I was back and forth between it and the T14s, but when I got my T14s at work I realized that this gen just isn't any more premium than the T14/P14s. I popped in a 4TB Samsung 990 Pro, which is the only single sided 4TB drive with RAM that I know of.
Originally I ordered an OLED model, but the battery life was horrible. The 400 nit low power LCD is probably what you want. The 500 nit privacy guard has horrible viewing angles by design, and the 300 nit LCD is below average in color reproduction and uniformity. The T14s has a 300 nit low power with slightly higher resolution, I probably would have gotten that if the P14s offered it. I might swap later.
