Since 2020, Joe Biden’s support among working-class voters of all races has fallen alarmingly. Here are seven ways he and his party can reverse the slide.
You apply that standard evenly? If so, I have some great policy and reality-oriented questions to fucking ask you.
It’s worth considering that maybe if that data conflicts with the sentiment of the overwhelming majority of the people you’re trying to win over THE DATA COLLECTION PROCESS IS FLAWED.
This is literally the same Boomer shit that dribbles out of right-wing Facebook chuds. Like, word for fucking word.
I noticed that similarity, too. And I’m sure you have a fairly good idea of what is the ultimate source where those right-wingers on Facebook picked up a lot of their arguments from? And why the arguments tend to be very emotionally persuasive even though they’re wrong?
I didn’t interpret your argument as right wing - I interpreted it as based on emotion and anecdote and overt rejection of analytical thinking, and packaged up in this forceful presentation that would be perfectly at home in a campaign commercial. I can see the end where the lady looks right at the camera and says, “Well let me tell you something, Joe Biden. Me and my family are hurting. And this November, we’re going to let you know exactly what we think of all your facts and figures about how things are oh-so-good off in Washington.”
My argument is based on the fact that people’s opinion of the economy is more pessimistic than ever. This fact is/has been reinforced through almost every relevant poll of the past four years.
Do you believe that these people are making up hardship? Or maybe it’s some sort of conspiracy against our Glorious Leader by those damn MAGAt scum? The reality is that people are actually suffering in a way that contradicts what studies are reporting to a near-unprecedented extent. That gap is unexplainable in any way other than concluding that the studies are fundamentally flawed and the charts showing how great things really are do not accurately reflect reality.
This is a fascinating little construction that I’m just gonna let speak for itself
more pessimistic than ever
Are you under the impression, also, that we should measure vaccine effectiveness by asking people whether they feel optimistic that their vaccine is working?
There’s a fascinating little window into the flaws of this type of analysis, to be had in that the same people who report the nation’s economy doing badly, also report by quite a large margin the incorrect idea that their own state and their own family are doing much better than the nation as a whole. So they’re doing okay, but they’re still convinced that the nation as a whole is fucked and Biden’s definitely responsible.
This is a fascinating little construction that I’m just gonna let speak for itself
Please don’t. I want to hear your real rebuttal here. “Official reports of the economy disagree with the polled sentiments of the majority of Americans” is an indisputable fact.
Are you under the impression, also, that we should measure vaccine effectiveness by asking people whether they feel optimistic that their vaccine is working?
False equivalency, but if every official body said that the vaccinated were much less likely than the unvaccinated to fall ill, yet every relevant poll showed that the vaccinated became ill at a rate similar to the unvaccinated or said that they or most people they knew were vaccinated yet had become ill, and that every person felt like their vaccines were ineffective, the sane thing to do would be to question the premise.
Your last bit is a rebuttal for an argument that I’m not making; strawman.
I can’t explain it any different way than what I already said in quite a few messages now. If you want to measure economic performance, then you should measure people’s wages, inflation, housing costs, and other concrete numbers.
Asking people whether they feel like the economy is good is also relevant, for a few different reasons, sure. And you need to make sure you’re measuring the right metrics (e.g. wages at particular percentiles and not the stock market), sure. But you obviously shouldn’t let how people feel things are going, override the actual numbers of how things are going, when you’re talking about how to make economic progress.
You can disagree with that if you like (and it seems like you do), but I don’t feel like going back and forth with you about it any further.
You apply that standard evenly? If so, I have some great policy and reality-oriented questions to fucking ask you
My entire point is that no one can be entirely objective, but I try to be, so sure, “fucking” ask me anything.
This is literally the same Boomer shit that dribbles out of right-wing Facebook chuds. Like, word for fucking word.
I seem to recall a pretty big guy in the conservative circle make it pretty big off the whole “facts don’t care about your feelings” argument that you’re peddling here… I’m blanking on his name.
The reality is that millions of people are feeling more pessimistic about the future than ever. Work backward from that. Do you think that they’re all part of some conspiracy against you or that maybe, just maybe, these feelings are real, are justified, and that there’s some sort of gap in the data collection process that’s accounting for the discrepancy.
You are not a member of the intelligentsia, shepherding the uneducated prolies towards something they don’t know they want; people aren’t dumb. If things were actually as good as the current administration says they are, every single poll of the past four years wouldn’t show such a large discrepancy between real and perceived conditions.
You apply that standard evenly? If so, I have some great policy and reality-oriented questions to fucking ask you.
This is literally the same Boomer shit that dribbles out of right-wing Facebook chuds. Like, word for fucking word.
I noticed that similarity, too. And I’m sure you have a fairly good idea of what is the ultimate source where those right-wingers on Facebook picked up a lot of their arguments from? And why the arguments tend to be very emotionally persuasive even though they’re wrong?
Nah, this is an old-one. Inherent to the human condition, you might say. You see it everywhere, just in different doses.
Because they appeal to tribalist instincts rather than rationality.
I was thinking that they come out of literally the exact same how-can-we-produce-the-public-impact-we-want factories
I have no real evidence or basis for saying that, it’s just what I think
What similarity are you referring to? Can you explain how you interpret my argument to be right-wing?
A basic undergraduate education, in my case.
I didn’t interpret your argument as right wing - I interpreted it as based on emotion and anecdote and overt rejection of analytical thinking, and packaged up in this forceful presentation that would be perfectly at home in a campaign commercial. I can see the end where the lady looks right at the camera and says, “Well let me tell you something, Joe Biden. Me and my family are hurting. And this November, we’re going to let you know exactly what we think of all your facts and figures about how things are oh-so-good off in Washington.”
My argument is based on the fact that people’s opinion of the economy is more pessimistic than ever. This fact is/has been reinforced through almost every relevant poll of the past four years.
Do you believe that these people are making up hardship? Or maybe it’s some sort of conspiracy against our Glorious Leader by those damn MAGAt scum? The reality is that people are actually suffering in a way that contradicts what studies are reporting to a near-unprecedented extent. That gap is unexplainable in any way other than concluding that the studies are fundamentally flawed and the charts showing how great things really are do not accurately reflect reality.
This is a fascinating little construction that I’m just gonna let speak for itself
Are you under the impression, also, that we should measure vaccine effectiveness by asking people whether they feel optimistic that their vaccine is working?
There’s a fascinating little window into the flaws of this type of analysis, to be had in that the same people who report the nation’s economy doing badly, also report by quite a large margin the incorrect idea that their own state and their own family are doing much better than the nation as a whole. So they’re doing okay, but they’re still convinced that the nation as a whole is fucked and Biden’s definitely responsible.
Please don’t. I want to hear your real rebuttal here. “Official reports of the economy disagree with the polled sentiments of the majority of Americans” is an indisputable fact.
False equivalency, but if every official body said that the vaccinated were much less likely than the unvaccinated to fall ill, yet every relevant poll showed that the vaccinated became ill at a rate similar to the unvaccinated or said that they or most people they knew were vaccinated yet had become ill, and that every person felt like their vaccines were ineffective, the sane thing to do would be to question the premise.
Your last bit is a rebuttal for an argument that I’m not making; strawman.
I can’t explain it any different way than what I already said in quite a few messages now. If you want to measure economic performance, then you should measure people’s wages, inflation, housing costs, and other concrete numbers.
Asking people whether they feel like the economy is good is also relevant, for a few different reasons, sure. And you need to make sure you’re measuring the right metrics (e.g. wages at particular percentiles and not the stock market), sure. But you obviously shouldn’t let how people feel things are going, override the actual numbers of how things are going, when you’re talking about how to make economic progress.
You can disagree with that if you like (and it seems like you do), but I don’t feel like going back and forth with you about it any further.
My entire point is that no one can be entirely objective, but I try to be, so sure, “fucking” ask me anything.
I seem to recall a pretty big guy in the conservative circle make it pretty big off the whole “facts don’t care about your feelings” argument that you’re peddling here… I’m blanking on his name.
The reality is that millions of people are feeling more pessimistic about the future than ever. Work backward from that. Do you think that they’re all part of some conspiracy against you or that maybe, just maybe, these feelings are real, are justified, and that there’s some sort of gap in the data collection process that’s accounting for the discrepancy.
You are not a member of the intelligentsia, shepherding the uneducated prolies towards something they don’t know they want; people aren’t dumb. If things were actually as good as the current administration says they are, every single poll of the past four years wouldn’t show such a large discrepancy between real and perceived conditions.