On Sept. 17, just before 3:30 p.m., the small waiting room of Dr. Nour’s three-room pediatrics clinic in southern Beirut was packed. A mother was waiting to get preschool checkups for her three children. Two elderly patients were booked in for cataract treatments at the ophthalmologist office next door. Sitting next to them was a young couple whom Nour, whose name has been changed for security reasons, had not met before. The father bounced a 10-day-old baby on his lap. Clipped to his belt was a Gold Apollo Rugged Pager.
Nour brought the young couple into her examination room. She pulled out a blank file for the newborn and wrote his name: Aiman. She placed him on the scales: a little over 7 pounds. She lay Aiman on his back on an examination table and began to record his weight. As she did so, the man’s pager beeped twice.
“Excuse me,” he said, and reached down to silence it.
As he did so, about an ounce of explosives concealed within the pager detonated, sending shards of metal and fragments of its thick plastic casing out in all directions. The shrapnel tore deep wounds in the man’s abdomen, lodged in the ceiling of the clinic and lacerated the face of the baby as he lay on his back. Nour was thrown backward as the room filled with dust. She could not see through the smoke, but she could hear the woman’s voice shouting: “Aiman!”
I’m still utterly disgusted that the western media present this as anything other than state-backed terrorism.
Western media and a bunch of people here on Lemmy. “You don’t get it these were extremely targeted”
Oh? So the deaths and injuries of children and other civilians was purposeful?
I think the NYT podcast used the word ‘aimed an attack at Hezbollah’ which is certainly a choice to describe a bombing requiring no aim
I mean… yeah, I do believe their bombing of Gaza is also extremely targeted.
It’s just a question of who you target.
It was targeted at Gaza what more do you want? /s
And even if it hadn’t been as indiscriminate as it was, imagine the terror everyone around them must have (and likely continue to) experienced after seeing the person standing next to them in the grocery store suddenly have their goddamn legs blown off.
This is exactly how you create millions of more “terrorists,” and Israel knows exactly what they are doing. Just another generation who (understandably) wants to enact revenge with whatever means they may have, so Israel can give a plausible excuse to obliterate them with Western munitions.
Rinse and repeat.
I can understand why the people who performed the attack consider it to be “extremely targeted”. All accounts that I have read say that these pagers were used directly by Hezbollah as an alternative to cell phones, which they believe the IDF have the ability to track. I haven’t seen any reputable source claiming that these pagers were in use by the general population. So they consider these attacks targeted at Hezbollah, because only Hezbollah members should have had them.
They were not intending to target children or other civilians, but of course when something goes off at a random time like this there is no guarantee that only the targets are in possession of these devices.
However, I think the attack will end up actually harming Israeli security, for two reasons:
First of all, they put too much explosive stuff in it. If it were a smaller explosion (or even just a short circuit leading to device failure), fewer people would have been hurt, and they would have more claim to say they were targeting communications infrastructure. But if the explosions were smaller, the attack would not have gotten into the news. I think they made the explosions larger than necessary just to make headlines, without regard to collateral damage. I think that’s the part that would get any other country into hot water as a war crime.
But more importantly, they have proven to Hezbollah that Israel cannot track these closed pager networks, otherwise they would not have needed to blow them up! So now Hezbollah has learned to open up every pager before deploying, and once they source more devices they have their secure network back.
So in a few months, Israelis will be in a less secure position than they were before the attack, just because some of their leaders wanted to make headlines.
Pagers are a civilian object though.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule12
There was no way to know where these people would be when the bombs went off. Israel could have detonated at night, to minimise the chance of civilian casualties. They didn’t. During busy markets.
This was literally textbook terrorism, and against international law (see link).
Exactly this. I don’t understand why nobody seems to want to talk about everyone that witnessed this shit and the sheer terror that they are most likely still experiencing.
Which was the point.
Do you think more Hezbros would have worn their pagers during the day or when they were asleep?
You know that Hezbollah is a part of their government right? They have seats in their parliament. So even if they just attacked “Hezbollah” they attacked politicians, politicians in their homes with their families. If anyone directly targeted U.S. governors or congresspeople, or godforbid knesset members, all of the same people would be screaming murder and terrorism from the tops of hills. This is blatant racism.
How do you feel putting a small explosive into the pocket of a Hezbollah operative compares to firing a rocket into a children’s playground?
Fuck off apologist equivocator. Pointing out the horrors that Israel perpetrates does not condone the horrors another group perpetrates.
That’s some great language. How do you propose we stop those horrors of ‘the other group’?
We stop the horrors by placing stipulations on the aid we supply the Israelis. We stop turning a blind eye to how their extreme right wing factions like Netanyahu’s Likud party use our money and military resources. The United States, Europe and most of Asia are against settlements within Palestinian territories but each year right wing politicians allow or even encourage taking over more and more land. Plenty of Israeli citizens are against the settlements and against the Netanyahu regime so let’s work with them to make decisions that aren’t so obviously provocative to both their neighbors as well as the minority Israeli citizens who also live there. Let’s not pretend Netanyahu’s do whatever he pleases policies aren’t a big part of the anger and aggression we are seeing year after year. Our aid and financial support should be 100% conditional.
The reality (sadly) is that because of all the violence a majority of Israelis has given up on a two-state solution. Settlement of the West-Bank has lost internal opposition.
That’s a reality that’s hard to swallow for normal people, but it’s a reality that politicians have to aknowlegde. Outside pressure can slow it down or accelerate it (eg. Trump), but those 500k settlers are never going to move out, not even when the US stops all weapon shipments today. Now, when you’ve accepted that reality the question goes back to do you think the world is better with Israel existing or with Iran winning (and very likely putting a genocide on Israel’s population)?
Saying Israel can’t strike back at Hezbollah like this because “you can’t accept the horrors” is just going make the world worse, as you don’t have a solution for the other side “doing whatever they please” (as in attacking Israel in perpetuity)
Well, considering the ongoing genocide has been a “dangerous situation with a high risk of escalation” for almost a year now, it’s not very surprising their state-sponsored terrorist attack is merely a James Bond-esque intelligence strategy.
Its was targeted strike on members of the terrorist group Hezbollah, its quite literally anti-terrorism.
A targeted strike should not have this much collateral damage.
2-4 collateral damage is pretty good compared to bombs and air strikes.
Literal terrorism. State-sponsored terrorism.
Absolutely, could you imagine if this happened in Israel, thousands of bombs going off indiscriminately?
I mean, it was a pretty well targeted attack.
Bullshit.
“no u”
It really bothers me that we’re (the West) letting Israel get away with so much. First Palestine, then these random terrorist tactics, now Lebanon. And the. People wonder why there’s entire generations and groups of people that hate them.
There’s only one of two end games here that I see. 1) complete genocide of populations or 2) a massive war when people are pushed too far.
I can only think they believe 1 is truly viable so keep pushing where they can.
Do you think it’s a bad thing the West is letting Hezbollah get away with attacking civilians in Israel? Or is it a good thing?
Fun fact! You can decry senseless violence from one source while not excusing it from another! Criticism of Israel’s tactics should never be taken as endorsement of terrorism perpetrated by Hezbollah (or Hamas, etc.), just as criticism of the tactics of Hezbollah (or Hamas, etc.) should never be taken as endorsement of terrorism perpetrated by Israel!
So do you decry senseless violence from Hamas and Hezbollah or are all you complaints one sided.
The whole place is a shit show. Has been for years, centuries, millennia.
So do you decry senseless violence from Hamas and Hezbollah or are all you complaints one sided.
Wow, your reading comprehension is as bad as Senator John Kennedy’s hearing.
Of course I decry senseless violence from Hamas and Hezbollah. And I would oppose sending weapons to them.
A funnier fact! The poster I replied to wasn’t ‘criticizing Israel’s tactics’ - they were questioning why ‘the West’ allowed Israel to attack Hezbollah.
Take your ‘both sides are bad in this conflict’ to heart and read their comment again
The poster I replied to wasn’t ‘criticizing Israel’s tactics’ - they were questioning why ‘the West’ allowed Israel to attack Hezbollah.
No they weren’t. They asked why the West was letting Israel get away with so much. Then listed various examples of things that are causing widespread harm to civilians.
Then YOU asked if they think it’s bad that the West is letting Hezbollah get away with attacking civilians in Israel.
But your question begins from a false premise. Basically no government in the West provides aid or weapons to Hezbollah. They are considered a terrorist organization by the West. So the West is not letting Hezbollah get away with it.
Meanwhile the West continues to provide weapons to Israel, who is using those weapons to cause significant harm to civilian populations.
That’s the question. Why is the West letting Israel attack civilians without repercussion? There’s no reason in good faith to ask someone who asks this question about how they feel about Hezbollah attacking civilians. Because, ostensibly, they are opposed to violence against civilians. As, clearly, is the West when it’s not Israel (or, indeed, the West) perpetrating the violence.
(I think the obvious answer to the question is “because Israel is allied with the West and in realpolitik we let our allies do horrible things that we would not tolerate in our enemies.” That’s not an ethical answer, many of Israel’s actions lately have been horrific, but it’s the realistic one.)
Edit: grammatical fix
They asked why the West was letting Israel get away with so much. Then listed various examples of things that are causing widespread harm to civilians.
They didn’t really list anything but some superficial simplifications. ‘The West’ let Israel get away with ‘Palestine’. They let them get away with ‘terrorist tactics’ and ‘Lebanon’. Are these vague accusations ‘causing widespread harm to civilians’? I think they deserve more discussion than to just say they did ‘a Lebanon’ and call it an open and shut case Johnson…
So the West is not letting Hezbollah get away with it.
Meanwhile the West continues to provide weapons to Israel, who is using those weapons to cause significant harm to civilian populations.
Hezbollah (and Hamas) are being armed and supported by Iran. Now everyone knows that the zionists will not see the paradise they crave in the afterlife, but if you’re working towards a better world you can’t ignore the fact that Iran and the conservative extremist movement they are part of are even worse. ‘The West’ can ignore that and let the people of Israel get genocided by even worse people, or they can hope for a stalemate (which means they have to support Israel) or a win for Israel (which means they have to support Israel). In any case, not supporting Israel will result in the faction vying for things like legalised child rape (amongst other horrific shit) will win. That will result in a worse world by any measure.
That’s the question. Why is the West letting Israel attack civilians without repercussion? There’s no reason in good faith to ask someone who asks this question about how they feel about Hezbollah attacking civilians. Because, ostensibly, they are opposed to violence against civilians. As, clearly, is the West when it’s not Israel (or, indeed, the West) perpetrating the violence.
When fighting extremists that blend into a civilian population, it’s impossible to be effective without causing civilian deaths. In cases like Mosul or Raqqa, you reach a point where you have to turn the dial past the marker because you just can’t destroy them without hurting any civilians. When ‘the West’ fought the nazi’s, they broadly went over that line because not doing so would have just resulted in more suffering for more people.
Isreal wants a war in the middle east to force America’s hand. Their main goal is to sway more evangelical Christians to vote for Trump who will wipe every adversarial Muslim country off the map. I’m not saying Biden does not have a hand in the ongoing conflict and genicide in the area. Right now the democrats are the party enabling these atrocities right now. I’ll never complain about those that make this fact a sticking point on how they are going to vote. Outside of the globe environmental catastrophe that will doom all humans, I don’t see a bigger issue to get behind than stopping an ongoing genicide. I’m voting for the democrats but I’m also protesting against the democratic party that is helping genicide. I’m marching with my fellow Palestinian brothers and sisters. Don’t just shout down those with legitimate hangups about voting for Harris/the democrats. Try to understand why they feel that way and push your representatives to publicly support Palestinian rights and now Lebanese rights. Even if the dems win if they don’t change course on this issue, we’ll all pay one way or another.
I’m curious to see if Gold Apollo will be offered any remuneration for lost brand confidence over this. Their name has been everywhere and they had almost nothing to do with it.
