This should be illegal, companies should be forced to open-source games (or at least provide the code to people who bought it) if they decide to discontinue it, so people can preserve it on their own.
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This really sucks when you have to explain this kind of thing to your kids…
That's the horrible thing about online services. You never really own it, it can be taken away from you at any time. If you want to preserve something, you need physical and/or offline access.
And in addition to that sentiment, compression from moving or sending a copy of a copy is known to very slowly degrade digital media, so physical is almost always preferred.
As long as you are very serious about your backup system, digital can outlast physical.
I have a folder on my D: called OLDINSTALL.
It's my entire hard drive from 1996, including DOS.
I think it's a couple hundred megabytes in size, but the vast majority of the files and games were exclusively in floppy disk format.
I don't have a floppy drive or any disks anymore.
Sure, it's possible, but it's unlikely. A properly kept laserdisc compared to, for example, a YouTube Video isn't even a competition. Physical media not exposed to radiation or impact can last decades if not centuries. Don't even get me started on Vynil.
Piracy is a pretty great backup system for everyone. You're welcome.
Somebody somewhere is archiving it or it has the same problem.
Literally every seeder is part of that archive. You can look at individual trackers in the microcosm as individual archives and indices, but it's the culture of piracy that causes the wide scale collection and preservation of media.
We're actually at this kind of interesting cross-generational point of guerilla archival where it's become easier to find certain obscure pieces of media history. I suspect this is in large part due to things like bounties, where suddenly a forgotten VHS of a 35 year old HBO special that aired once or twice could be a step toward a higher rank and greater access to a wider range of media.
Modern piracy has a strong incentive toward finding lost material that's no longer readily available. Zero day content is great, but have you seen the RADAR pilot or both seasons of AfterMASH?
They belong in a museum. Indie would be proud, even if Harrison wouldn't. Not that I know his perspective on piracy.
Err, no. Lossless compression is lossless and there are a bunch of techniques to ensure that a copy is bit-for-bit identical to the original
It is literally the other way around.
There is no way for digital media to degrade, unless it is the physical media.
Compression and transmission of data causes loss of parity. We lose or flip some 1s and 0s. Over time the effects become very noticeable. The best visual example I can think of are experiments where YouTubers downloaded and reuploaded their own video 100 times, it very quickly degrades. In a more reasonable scenario, near lossless file types and compressions would degrade much more slowly.
experiments where YouTubers downloaded and reuploaded their own video 100 times, it very quickly degrades
That just means Youtube's software uses lossy compression, that is a Youtube problem, not a digital media problem. Are you familiar with the concept of file hashing? A short string can be derived from a file, such that if any bit of the file is altered, it will produce a different hash. This can be used in combination with other methods to ensure perfect data consistency; for example a file torrent that remains well seeded won't degrade, because the hash is checked by the software, so if anyone's copy changes at all due to physical degradation of a harddrive or whatever other reason, the error will be recognized and routed around. If you don't want to rely on other people to preserve something, there is always RAID, a 50 year old technology that also avoids data changing or being lost assuming that you maintain your hardware and replace disks as they break.
Here's the fundamental reason you're wrong about this: computers are capable of accounting for every bit, conclusively determining if even one of them has changed, and restoring from redundant backup. If someone wants to perfectly preserve a digital file and has the necessary resources and knowledge, they can easily do so. No offense but what you are saying is ignorant of a basic property of how computers work and what they are capable of.
It's the most obvious example of a digital media problem. Computers might be able to account for every bit with the use of parity files and backups with frequent parity checks, but the fact is most people aren't running a server with 4 separately powered and monitored drives as their home computer, and even the most complex system of data storage can fail or degrade eventually.
We live in a world of problems, like the YouTube problem, compression problems, encoding problems, etc. We do because we chose efficiency and ease of use over permanency.
Computers might be able to account for every bit with the use of parity files and backups with frequent parity checks
Yes, and this can be done through mostly automatic or distributed processes.
even the most complex system of data storage can fail or degrade eventually.
I wouldn't describe it as complex, just the bare minimum of what is required to actually preserve data with no loss. All physical mediums may degrade through physical processes, but redundant systems can do better.
but the fact is most people aren’t running a server with 4 separately powered and monitored drives as their home computer
It isn't hard to seed a torrent. If a group of people want to preserve a file, they can do it this way, perfectly, forever, so long as there remain people willing to devote space and bandwidth.
We live in a world of problems, like the YouTube problem, compression problems, encoding problems, etc. We do because we chose efficiency and ease of use over permanency.
All of these problems boil down to intent. Do people intend to preserve a file, do they not care, do they actively favor degradation? In the case of the OP game, it seems that the latter must be the case. Same with Youtube, same with all those media companies removing shows and movies entirely from all public availability, same with a lot of companies. If someone wants to preserve something, they choose the correct algorithms, simple as that. There isn't necessarily much of a tradeoff for efficiency and ease of use in doing so, disk space is cheap, bandwidth is cheap, the technology is mature and not complicated to use. Long term physical storage can be a part of that, but it isn't a replacement for intent or process.
The best visual example I can think of are experiments where YouTubers downloaded and reuploaded their own video 100 times
This has nothing to do with copying a file. YouTube re-encodes videos whenever they are uploaded.
A file DOES NOT DEGRADE when it is copied. That is something that happened to VHS and cassette tapes. It does not happen to digital files. You can even verify this by generating a hash of a file, copy it 10,000 times, and generate a new hash and they would be 100% identical.
You should perform that exact experiment with a sufficient number of bits, you'll be surprised.
No I won't be, because I've done this before for various reasons, but not a single but was changed.
Let me put it this way. A computer stores programs and instructions it needs to run in files on a drive. These files contain exact and precise instructions for various components to operate. If even a SINGLE bit is off in just a couple of the OS files, your computer will start throwing constant errors if not just crashing entirely.
And this isn't just theory. It's provable. Cosmic rays have been known to sometimes hit a drive and cause a bit-flip. Or another issue is a drive not being powered on for a long time causing bit-rot
At this point I'm starting to think you're a troll. There's no way someone believes what you're saying.
Edit: autocorrect
You're referring to a video codec degrading as it keeps rendering the video again, not just copying and pasting the bits. There is no degradation from copying and pasting a file as-is.
No, I am not referring to that. YouTubers have the option to download their own videos. Not steal it with a video downloading tool.
That's YouTube's processed video not the original.
Games don't get lossy compressed when sent. They aren't films or photographs.
Also even if you're using lossy compression you don't recompress things every time lol.
If you use most digital formats for media and compress them with something like .7z or Winrar, then it might take years or decades to noticeable degrade, but it is still a matter of when not if.
Holy crap. File compression is not the same thing as lossy media compression.
File compression uses mathematical algorithms to create definable outcomes. Meaning it doesn't matter how much you compress/uncompress a file, it will always be exactly the same.
5 X 2 will always give you 10 and 10 ÷ 2 will always give you 5.
Nah
You touch anything from Meta with a 10 foot pole, you deserve whatever comes your way.
It's not like this phenomena is limited to the Quest or Meta. It happens all the time across the whole industry.
Google
Or we could make shitty behavior illegal so that people don't have to vet the ethics of every company they interact with.
Complete agree. Disgusting evil company. Fuck Facebook
Archival is extremely important and one of the side effects of copyright schemes is that they limit its viability. The less access people have, the more likely some work becomes lost forever. I've seen it a few times already, with recent work, but in one or two hundred years we're talking about libraries of art that could have been preserved but are just gone.
Closed source software, that's actually distributed to people, has all kinds of problems beyond that too. Tons has been written about that, but from an artistic perspective, I think the biggest loss is that people can't legally expand the original work. Giant franchises with a central cultural presence get walled off and usually just go through a huge creative decline, which is crazy because there's millions of people preoccupied with the concepts from the franchise who are barred from using them to express themselves. With software in specific, if it's open source you can modify it, fix it, expand it, maintain it, whatever - there's all these great resources they could use, but we won't let them.
Pirates keep many things alive. 🏴☠️🦜
It's pretty insane. At first I thought damn, from now on our culture will be so thoroughly documented that future historians will struggle to parse it all, but now I can't trust anything to last for 5 years and I can't have copies of it, either.
Piracy shmiracy, some random dude's homegrown server is not an archive, and anything that fails without electricity to power it is not a copy.
Archival projects like ours !2009scape@kbin.social
I bought a bunch of music on Google Play Music, forgot about it. Come back a year later and it's all deleted because they shut the service down.
laughs in yo-ho-ho
Never buy from the cloud, only rent.
Your purchases didn't migrate over to YouTube music?? I still have all the music I bought
I did find that some of my uploaded library got changed to different versions of songs, which I didn't like.
Spotify did that too. Got to listen to THE definitive worst cover of Hotel California I've ever heard. I don't trust cloud services with my music anymore. Mp3's forever.
This is why hard copy is refusing to die.
You had a limited time window to manually do that. I didn't get the memo.
It's still on your YouTube Music account, if you clicked that button.
Should be automatic, but…
Sadly there was a pretty short grace period to do so. It should have indeed been automatic.
Yep, I was sent one email to an old email address I do not use.
You don't own things anymore, you just lease them
And if you can't own anything by paying, is game piracy even theft anymore?
I believe the founder and first queen of Carthage said that if we don't learn to circumvent that, we deserve nothing more than we get. She went on to claim that nothing we have is truly ours.
Is it just me or was that Phoenician quite a bit ahead of her time?
Is this made in unity?
Wouldn't be surprised.
Partner found out about the unity crap when a bunch of steam library games published updates about changes in development, at least one of which stated they're transitioning from free to paid
oh god this reminds me of Japanese man who married Hatsune Miku in hologram form can no longer speak to his wife of four years.
"The doting husband has gained thousands of followers on Instagram by sharing insights into his life with Miku, but things took an unexpected turn during the pandemic when Gatebox announced it was discontinuing its service for Miku."
this is why I have trust issues with proprietary software
If that man harnesses the power of LLM like Chat GPT, he can continue talking with his wife
Until ChatGPT is shut down. Have control over your waifus, people!
Let's take back the means of waifus!
One could say you must seize the means of reproduction.
Representative Boebert has been a commie all along! 🤯
Don't think reproduction has anything to do with this.
At least the general idea behind language models isn't proprietary and fairly well available in ooen source. Sure, GPT is better, but it could change.
Well, Llama 2 then.
hmm not sure if that would work as the model that he was using would be different from what's available so he'd probably notice some differences which might cause a mix of uncanny valley and surrealism/suspension of disbelief where the two are noticably not the same
plus using a chat-only model would be real tragic as it's a significant downgrade from what they already had
his story actually feels like a Romeo and Juliet situation
Doesn't even take a change of service provider to get there.
Replika had what had very obviously become a virtual mate service too, until they decided "love" wasn't part of their system anymore. Probably because it looked bad for investors, as happened for a lot of AI-based services people used for smut.
So a bunch of lonely people had their "virtual companion" suddenly lobotomized, and there's nothing they could do about it.
I always thought replika was a sex chatbot? Is/was it "more" than that?
It's… complicated.
At first the idea was it'd be training an actual "replica" of yourself, that could reflect your own personality. Then when they realized their was a demand for companionship they converted it into virtual friend. Then of course there was a demand for "more than friends", and yeah, they made it possible to create a custom mate for a while.
Then suddenly it became a problem for them to be seen as a light porn generator. Probably because investors don't want to touch that, or maybe because of a terms of servce change with their AI service provider.
At that point they started to censor lewd interactions and pretend replika was never supposed to be more than a friendly bot you can talk to. Which is, depending on how you interpret what services they proposed and how they advertized them until then, kind of a blatant lie.
LLM is capable of role-playing, character.ai for example can get into the role of any character after being trained. The sound is just text-to-speech, character.ai already includes that, though if a realistic voice is desired, it would need to be generated by a more sophisticated method, which is already being done. Example: Neuro-sama, ElevenLabs
Can any owner of this game tell me whether it is online only or not? Or what uses it has for an internet connection? Because back in mah dayTM© that'd be the kind of thing you'd download once and, even if the online service died, you'd still have a working program/game afterwards.
Why would they want you to have a working program? How does that help sell you more stuff?
This is why I always look for cartridge-based Switch ports of games I play, so they’ll be mine long after the online play ceases, they can no longer be legally purchased and my current device reaches the end of its product life. It also helps that game cards last longer than optical discs
The updates are still annoying but yeah it's better than nothing. Of course there are some releases with the complete games all patched but those are rare and usually special/limited editions.
I'll never miss a chance to shill Ross Scotts excellent video on games as a service and how wrong it is here
My man has been personally leading the charge against this issue and has even looked into making this practice illegal
I've had that thought many times. I wish companies would release the source of games they discontinue instead of letting them completely die out.
Why should a developer be forced to forfeit their source code just because they don't want to sell their game any longer?
If people focused on DRM-free games instead, this wouldn't be an issue in the first place.
Don't let Meta metastasize.
It's meta lol. It's the devil.
Is this a Facebook game…?
It's developed by Facebook, but it's not one of those in-browser games you might be thinking of. "Meta Quest" is their VR platform. So, while the quality might be similar, you do need to buy rather expensive gear to play this particular game…
