I’m pretty sure the Ukrainians will cease firing once the Russians leave their country and stop trying to murder them.
Don’t know why the United States would have any say in Putin pulling the Russian paramilitary out of Ukraine. Ceasefire is simple, back your ass out of Ukraine, back to 2013 borders.
They (the US) don’t, and they acknowledge that.
In the interview with fucker carlson, Putin said that Ukraine is a vassal of the US and Russia does not negotiate with Ukraine as it’s useless, they want to only negotiate with the puppet master.
Hence the offer, hence the rejection. It’s geopolitical theatre.
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They said that about keeping them at bay, keeping control of the black sea and countless other things.
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oh for fucks sake, putins russia has never once ‘negotiated’ in good faith. they just use it to buy time to resupply and relocate. every peace deal theyve made, THEY broke. ukraine gets to decide when it’s time to talk. the US cant stop them
In bad faith to buy time, you say? That’s rich: Former German Chancellor Merkel admits the Minsk agreement was merely to buy time for Ukraine’s arms build-up. It’s almost as if every accusation is a confession.
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“sources” eh? more like lies manufactured wholesale
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Yeah. I suppose this is also bidens fault. /s
Update: it would seem that people disagree with me, fair enough, but perhaps somebody would care to tell me what is wrong with my theory?
Original comment:
I’m going to try with a crazy conspiracy theory(but the crazy ones are the more entertaining ones, right?):Putin’s investment in the western defense industry drove the invasion of Ukraine to stimulate European NATO countries’ military investments.
Reasoning:
- Russia’s actions towards Eastern NATO countries and the invasion of Ukraine could be strategic moves to encourage European NATO nations to bolster their military investments.
- Sweden and Finland’s potential NATO membership could further incentivize their procurement of NATO-aligned weaponry.
- Other Western European countries are already allocating significant resources to military investments.
Considering Occam’s razor, is it simpler to assume Putin, heavily invested in the defense industry, initiated conflict for profit, or believe in complex internal political motives?
but perhaps somebody would care to tell me what is wrong with my theory?
I’ll give it a shot.
First off, any payoff from Russia investing in NATO defense is massively offset by the untold damage this war is doing to Russia’s economy and population. This still holds true if it’s just putin’s investment, although if he were really bent on profit from that he probably could. But there are other, more lucrative and less damaging avenues to profit for a guy with as much money as he has.
Secondly, the war isn’t pointless. Occams razor suggests the simplest reason is often the truth. The simplest reason is that Crimea provides Russia a western seaport that isn’t frozen half of the year, and taking eastern Ukraine provides a path to that port.
Thank you for telling why I’m wrong :)
I agree with you partly on your first point. Putin has other ways of making his fortune. BUT that doesn’t mean that he couldn’t also do this. Maybe it’s not the primary reason, but if Putin doesn’t care about Russia or the Russian people, then money could be a motivator.
On your second point IDK though. Russia still has a pretty large black sea port in Novorossiysk to the south east of Crimea. That port is on the mainland, has a rail connection, and doesn’t rely on an explosion prone bridge. Sevastopol may be an important port, but important enough to go to war over? Besides, the black sea ports aren’t the only warm water ports west of the Urals. Not counting the unconnected port in Murmansk, on the Baltic sea there’s Kaliningrad and the three large ports near Saint Petersburg. On wikipedia’s list of largest ports in the Baltic sea, the three at Saint Petersburg are in the top four.
So why go to war for a fifth port? Was Novorossiysk operating at capacity? I dont buy it. The war wasn’t for a path to Sevastopol alone.
So possible options as I see them:
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Biden’s USA is stubborn and nihilistic and just wants to kill as many Ukrainians and Russians as possible before Trump comes in and forces Ukraine to accept a treaty
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USA (and Ukraine) knows that Putin hasn’t changed its demands at all so any talks are pointless
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USA (and Ukraine) knows that Russia is losing and doesn’t want to negotiate
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Biden forgot how to use a phone and is too embarrased to ask
I’m personally going with 2 with a sprinkle of 4 and 1. In my happy dreams, 3.
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Why are so many people here from Lemmy.ml and Hexbear assuming Putin and Russia offered an amicable ceasefire? When has Putin EVER shown he would ever want such a thing?
You people have worms in your brains.
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I question why the US is doing the rejection rather than Ukraine (and similarly, why the UK rejected the last peace talks…)
The article you posted: “The Americans refuse to talk unless the Ukrainians are also invited”
You, for some reason: “Why is America deciding for Ukraine?”
It’s one of Putin’s strategies: To make it look like it is a conflict between the US/NATO and Russia, not between Ukraine and Russia. He also tries to diminish Ukrainian sovereignity by making it appear as if the US is the overlord, as if Ukraine is an American puppet. It’s all about making Ukraine look like it isn’t its own country. That’s why we get those bullshit historic lessons by that pathetic man-child.
I agree that the history lessons from Putin are bs, but hard disagree that this isn’t NATO/Russia but Ukraine/Russia. Do you know what a proxy war is?
The Vietnam War was a proxy war as well, but I’m pretty sure the (north) vietnamese still quite authentically wanted USA to gtfo.
I agree with what you say. OP is implying that just because “It’s one of Putin’s strategies: To make it look like it is a conflict between the US/NATO and Russia, not between Ukraine and Russia.” It’s not true. And I would like to challenge that.
If there’s something I learned from libs during this war is that Russia’s no1 strategy is saying the truth of how geopolitics works. Dirty Russians… using the truth against us!
Perhaps I perceive this wrong, but it seems like the counterimplication is that this war is primarily between US/NATO and Russia with Ukraine being just a pawn. I don’t think that’s quite true either.
I mean it is mostly is and would like to hear why it’s not true for you.
The case that Ukraine is mostly a pawn is that it gets major military and economic support from NATO/US https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/nato-pledges-further-major-military-economic-aid-ukraine-2024-01-10/ gets information support from NATO [the public/media discourse is heavy pro ukraine; ranging from bbc, dw, france24, nyt, wsj, reuters, etc. ] NATO is picking ukraines leaders https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9J6sxCs5k NATO is telling Ukraine what to do by coercing not to negotiate for peace https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/05/5/7344206/ While the US knew the consequences of NATO expension https://youtu.be/E3tdF2S04wg?si=cmjik9lRDryxHHEB&t=1312 [love that timestamp]
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=WV9J6sxCs5k
https://piped.video/E3tdF2S04wg?si=cmjik9lRDryxHHEB&t=1312
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Ukraine lost its sovereignty back when the coup happened. The war is absolutely between NATO and Russia, and lots of NATO officials have said this fairly openly at this point. People who keep pretending otherwise are utterly disingenuous.
Didn’t read the article you posted eh?
There’s more expiring guns to be given away yet, and more Ukrainian property to be bought at the firesale*
From the article:
A U.S. official, speaking in Washington on condition of anonymity, said that the U.S. has not engaged in any back channel discussions with Russia and that Washington had been consistent in not going behind the back of Ukraine.
