My phone is no longer getting updates, so it’s time to buy a new one. The hardware could easily last 1-2 more years but I’d have to replace the battery, which is a pain on my phone.
I’m looking for something that has long firmware support and some good privacy roms while not being worse than my current Oneplus 8 in any way. I don’t care about cameras at all and I’m still mad about the missing headphone jacks, but unfortunately those don’t seem to be coming back and I can survive without one.
So, the options are Fairphone 5 and Pixel 8 from what I found out. The Pixel 8 is a little small for my taste and with 256GB storage it’s more expensive, but it does have grapheneOS, which I’d prefer because the app sandboxing would allow me to have peace of mind even if I have tracking apps sitting on my phone. I could use the proper play store and do IAPs without fiddling with aurora store. I use it already and it isn’t great.
With the Fairphone, I’d get a replacable battery so I can buy a spare and swap instead of charging my phone. I used to do that with the good old S3 and it was great. MicroSD slot is also nice. But the ROM options are CalyxOS and /e/OS. I know Calyx has a nice firewall to keep tracking at bay and /e/OS is an LOS fork mainly focused on getting rid of google from what I know, but neither has as much protection as grapheneOS.
My main goal is to become less dependant on google while still being able to use google maps for my way to work. The traffic aware routing saves me 10 minutes every day so letting google know when I go to work is a fair deal.
So, any opinions or experiences with either? TIA
If privacy and security are your top priorities, which it sounds like they are, and you want a performance similar to OnePlus 8, go with the Google Pixel 8 with GrapheneOS. It's more aligned with your need for strong app sandboxing and convenient Google services integration, etc.
Though beware that although good in terms of performance, features and sturdiness (as long as you encase that glass back) or camera, Pixels are not flawless in terms of plain quality. Their battery life could be better and mine loses signal from time to time. Some features like 5G might not be available at every carrier in your country as well if Google has no official distribution there.
@SimonSaysStuff @nottheengineer seconded on the Pixel + GrapheneOS
Fairphone only partners with organizations who pay living wages. I.e. their phones aren't made in a sweatshop
I'd get the Pixel because of the long, not to mention timely software updates and security patches, better hardware and GrapheneOS. If you do get the Fairphone, use DivestOS. See this comparison
Thanks, I've been looking for a comparison like that but search engines have just gotten ridiculously bad. /e/ slacking on the webview updates is interesting and steers me away from it.
I'm leaning towards the fairphone right now because it's cheaper at 256GB and not smaller than my current phone. DivestOS looks like it does most of what grapheneOS would do for me.
Glad I could help!
I actually bought the Pixel 7A just a couple of weeks before the FP5 was announced. This was dumb but my old FP3+ was simply unusable so I really needed a replacement and I felt certain that the FP5 wouldn't have OLED. I ended up selling the Pixel to my sister who also needed a new phone and I got myself the FP5. We are both very happy.
I think it's pretty obvious that the Pixel is a "better" phone when it comes to the general experience from using it. However, I really do feel that this phone is "mine" in a way that I've never had with anything other than Fairphone. "If you can't open it, you don't own it" and all that. As soon as Lineage is released, I will install it but the stock rom is not bad.
I don't think I have the same privacy needs as you seem to have so I can't really give any advice on that front. I don't have adversaries on the nation state or even law enforcement levels so just having control over which non-FOSS is installed is enough to keep me happy.
I'm not sure if I actually answered any of your questions but I felt like my situation could mean that my opinions are still somewhat valuable. Please let me know if you have any questions I might be able to answer.
What was wrong with your FP3+?
The amount of ram was probably the main issue. Everything took forever or the apps simply crashed. Multitasking was completely out of the question as the apps were immediately killed when something else got higher priority.
Interesting, that barely ever happens to me. But I also don't use my phone for much tbh
bought the Pixel 7A just a couple of weeks before the FP5 was announced. This was dumb
No it wasn't. The FP5 will probably never have a decent ROM, only their proprietary stuff filled with tracking. The "fair phone" isn't that fair when it comes to privacy and software. Install GrapheneOS and enjoy a decent thing.
I don’t think I have the same privacy needs as you seem to have so I can’t really give any advice on that front. I don’t have adversaries on the nation state or even law enforcement levels so just having control over which non-FOSS is installed is enough to keep me happy.
Most people don't either. For me there two very important things: 1) knowing that if someone steals my phone they can't get to my data and 2) the phone isn't constantly snitching to someone / calling home / wasting battery on every step I take. From what I see FP's stock ROM does the opposite in both cases.
LineageOS is available for every previous FP
So what? With that you've an unsecure phone that doesn't cover both point above. There's a reason why there's so much time and effort invested in GrapheneOS.
For everyone what they need. I'm quite happy with LOS and think it is a "decent ROM"
With the Fairphone you get more than just a replaceable battery. You get replaceable nearly everything. Also they do their best to ethically source the materials. In terms of ROMs there is also Iodé, also based on LOS, and if you go with a FP4 instead Ubuntu Touch.
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Pixel because it supports GrapheneOS thus more secure and private.
Calyx isn't as good as GrapheneOS, they do a lot of snitching on you (including to Google and Mozilla) and they overlook critical details such as this one allowing the OS to contact 3rd parties such as Qualcomm.
How does DivestOS compare to Graphene in your opinion?
Divest is based on Lineage, which isn't as secure as Graphene (by a significant margin), but my understanding is Divest has done some things to improve sscurity/privacy.
I realize since we're talking a Pixel here, Graphene is the security/privacy answer. I have other phones in my "support circle" that can use Lineage or Divest, and I'd like to advise people appropriately.
DivestOS is the best option for someone who already has a non-Pixel device. For a Pixel, the developer of DivestOS himself recommends GrapheneOS.
I don't have an opinion on DivestOS. Never used nor audited the thing so I can't comment.
Europeans are so lucky lol.
It is true, I haven't found anything akin to sandboxes in any other ROM. However, if you contain your apps inside a workspace, that seems fairly sandboxed to me, for the most part. It is unfortunate that Google's mobiles are not as repairable.
Let us know what you end up buying. I wonder if sandboxing can be implemented in other ROMs through some modifications in the Kernel (it's Linux after all).
Cheers
Just wanted to share my experience as someone that just updated to a p8p with GrapheneOS.
This is the first time I install a custom ROM in a smartphone and it hasn't been easy but I'm pretty impressed so far. I installed their sandbox Google Play/Services to keep using banking apps and other apps that need it. Everytime I install an app it asks if it should have internet access permission so I can use Gboard without the need to use NetGuard.
I can limit storage scopes for every app. If I want WhatsApp to only be able to access my Downloads folder, I can. If I want to trick it saying that it has access to my contacts, I also can.
The biggest issue for me now is probably install/use things in a way that just don't throw all the OS purpose out of the window and without asking questions considering how awful people can be when they think a question is dumb.
I was a bit disappointed with the lack of microSD but I realized I probably wouldn't use it. I also had to install a custom launcher to customize icons and such.
One thing that worries me is how to setup a way to find my phone in case I lose it.
AirDroid. It's not free, but it's pretty good(or at least it was, years ago)
Try shelter from fdroid
Try Prey and/or Cerberus.
Fairphone is known to have several hardware related problems, but they usually ignore or do not acknowledge them. Recently they tried to argue a hardware problem (ghost inputs) can be solved via firmware update, but of course it couldn't. Additionally you lose support for device when using custom roms (even /e/os). They only support google Android. You could buy from Murena but they can not help with hardware or firmware issues. Fairphone is very to patch their devices in terms of security.
But google is google. I would never give them money.
I've always bought used phones anyway. With eBay/kijiji/others you can request the seller to enable OEM unlocking so you know it can be done and you don't even need to boot it into android before installing GrapeneOS.
My experience, not many people are willing to do that for you. YMMV.
I replaced the Pixel 6 with the Pixel 8 257gb of storage, this solved my need for an SD card, I replaced the 3.5 headphone jack with an Ibasso DC03 pro DAC for the USB C port. Since I've been using phones with custom ROMs for years (also 2x Sony with SailfishOS) I was always looking for something that would be useful for me (the best choice would be the LG V50 if it could be loaded with GOS or DivestOS). The Pixeli8 is still an expensive phone (mine bought new from another user) but I like the GrapheneOS, compact design, camera and usability, and long-term support (hopefully I'll have it for a long time). I only have FOSS applications on my profile, and my work profile contains Gplay and a few apps that I occasionally use. I have no comments, everything works as it should and I like the compact design and the camera. The keyboard is also finally FOSS, open board (fork) with swipe function. I much prefer using it than Gboard with internet blocked.
The openboard fork with the swipe function is amazing.
Where can one find it?
Open Board fork: https://github.com/Helium314/openboard
Allow loading Glide typing library
not included in the app, as there is no compatible open source library
can be extracted from GApps packages (swypelibs), or downloaded
https://github.com/erkserkserks/openboard/tree/master/app/src/main/jniLibs/arm64-v8a
Openboard - Settings - Advanced - Load gesture typing library
I use this one: https://github.com/erkserkserks/openboard
Older Sony Xperia phones support LineageOS and have a headphone jack. Normally it isn’t until their 2-warranty is up that a LineageOS build is mainlined (likely because they aren’t high volume & are expensive). I got a III recently to running LineageOS for microG (but the proprietary camera app is missing).
Be aware that the cheaper ASUS Zenfones have a headphone jack, but are nearing a year since their bootloader unlock servers “went down for maintenance”. They’ll likely never come back.
Depends, grapheneos is good but if you dotn want it get a fairphone
Really, it's gonna depend on what your top priorities are. I run a Pixel 6 Pro with CalyxOS and I love it. But for you, it depends on whether you really need top security or want to go for a more open and long term design (which may not be entirely beneficial or all that special now).
For the Pixel 8, you're gonna get much better cameras and more of those "Pixel Features" even when running something like GOS or CalyxOS. Its really nice cause you can even use GBoard and GCam and just firewall them (or however you do the equivalent in GOS), so you get the benefits without the downsides. Though it will be more expensive too.
With Fairphone, you're gonna get a more open design that likely will last longer. That said, it doesn't have a top end processor in it, so you have to imagine what it'll be like in 6-8 years trying to run Android 20. Longevity is nice, but not as helpful if it can't keep up physically with new releases. Also, with the Pixel 8 line now set to be supported for 8 years, it kinda… Undermines the Fairphone argument somewhat, though not to a huge degree.
Personally, if it were me, I'd choose the Pixel (and also choose CalyxOS as well, but that's more a personal choice, don't let the Graphene folks try and sway you with a bunch of FUD. CalyxOS is just fine, but GOS is a good choice too). It will have higher quality hardware, the processor should be able to handle tougher workloads into the future, and I think you'll quite like the experience.
But, the Fairphone isn't a bad choice either, and its definitely supporting a better ecosystem overall. It just won't have as good of cameras and may not run as well a few years down the road, which could be an issue for the longevity. It can also run CalyxOS as well, so you won't be missing out on using most other normal apps.
Really, it just depends on your use case and priorities. I don't think you can go absolutely wrong choosing either one though.
I have a Pixel 8 pro coming, planned on gOS. What do you like about Calyx instead? I'll look into that one in the morning.
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I know Louis got into it with the go's guy lol
There’s one single killer feature that lineage OS and calyx OS have that graphene OS doesn’t. The ability to share VPN connections via tethering.
That’s neat. I got my pixel the other day and went with graphene but who knows maybe I’ll try another sometime
Longevity is nice, but not as helpful if it can’t keep up physically with new releases.
You also have to imagine what that longevity is going to really mean. Even a sturdy phone with a good case is in an unfriendly environment. They live in pockets, purses, and get dropped. Getting updates for 10 years is great, but it's not too useful if the phone is dead. It's always good to pursue increased longevity, but there is diminishing return for many reasons.
This is absolutely true. The Fairphone kinda gets around this since its got open parts and can be user serviced for most things, but the honest question for that is how many are gonna go to that trouble, not next week when your phone is still new, but 5 years from now? The dedicated certainly will and I commend Fairphone for it, but a lot of average folks with a slower phone are gonna want to upgrade at that point.
Yeah, I think you nailed it there. Even a repair-oriented phone like the Fairphone has it's limits, especially when it gets on to later years.
App Sandboxes in Graphene? can someone tell me about this? is this a new feature?
It puts Google Play/Services inside a sandbox so it doesn't get any priorities and can have permissions revoked like any other app (internet access/storage scopes/etc)
Not what you're looking for but the Asus Zenfone 10 still has a headphone jack. I don't think you'll find a privacy oriented custom ROM for it though.
