First person I saw on Lemmy who actually has a braincell.

Is it that hard to see that one side’s goal is revenge, and the other’s goal is security?

Ah yes, because what we need is more hostilities.

Has 7.10 taught you nothing?

Dude this is a cat meme

Mainly 2 big ones

Username checks out.

I don’t think there’s a single person on the planet who doesn’t want Netanyahu gone from the Israeli government.

He failed guarding Israeli lives

He failed guarding Palestinian lives (didn’t really try tho)

He failed disabling Hamas

He failed bringing the hostages back

He caused Israel to be the most divided it has ever been, hence the most right wing government is right now in office

And all just to not be in jail. Fuck Netanyahu.

And that’s also literally what I wrote. You just repeated my sentence. Nice.

Minimizing ≠ keeping them safe. Read my comment again.

Hamas…

Yeah, usually you wanna feed your human bargain, so you know, they’ll get better deals out of them.

Don’t excuse terrorists for feeding their victims.

As sad as it is, they’re not Israel’s responsibility. It’s Israel’s responsibility to minimize their deaths, but not to keep them safe. That’s on Hamas/whoever gets control of Gaza after this war.

You’re not antisemitic, you’re just stupid.

When the next Holocaust happens (we can see the world persecuting Jews in these very months…), and Israel will be the only one to save you, turn them down, because you obviously hate them so much.

1. Palestine denies the existence of Israel, even stated by the symbols of Hamas and the PLO, coloring the entire state of Israel as their territory. Now, who actually has the right to that land? The ones who bought those lands in the early 20th century and got a majority vote of the U.N to their creation alongside their neighbours? Or is it the ones who objected since the beginning up until today that no jew can rule any part of that land? The biggest diners of the other side’s existence are the Palestinians. They have since the beginning denied the right for a jewish state to exist. Israel started to deny a Palestinian state to exist only after the arabs started an all-out war on Israel.

2. Terrorist state? What does that even mean considering they Palestinians aren’t their citizens? They’re a state who has very hostile neighbours right next to them, and that acts with aggression to aggression. No act of violence against civilians has been started by the IDF, while hundreds of acts of violence have started against civilians by Hamas (the PLO don’t directly do terrorism, but they pay terrorist jihad’s families for killing innocents).

3. Can you really say that Israel wishes for Hamas? Even after 7/10 can you seriously say that Israel wishes for such a violent terrorist organization to exist right next to their borders? If so then that’s some severe case of Stockholm syndrome. Yes, Hamas is simpler to deal with politically, but it’s so much more threatening and hard to deal with militarily. How are they supposed to fight people who hide amongst innocents? Hamas is probably the biggest headache to Israel ever. They ruin their relations with Suni arab countries, they make them look bad to the western world by making them bomb civilian infrastructure, and they actively pillage their villages for terror’s sake. Seriously, how can Israel wish for that.

Also let’s be clear, what Israel wants is the entire land of Israel, including the west bank, all under jewish control. That’s obviously their best scenario. Do they get what they wish? No. Do they work for it? Yeah. Can you blame them? Idk. Probably. They really should work more towards creating a Palestinian state in the west bank/gaza, but that could be said for the Palestinian leaders as well, who are still advocating for the entire annexation of Palestinians over the entire land of Israel (“from the river to the sea…”).

“I used the chad meme so I’m correct”

Israel mainly kills innocent civilians

You mean during this war or before? If during, then yeah probably (although Hamas won't release the numbers of terrorists/civilians killed) But again, that's just war, and war is horrible. We can all agree on that.

And about 2023 being the deadliest one - it's so much more nuanced than this - it's indeed the Israeli government's fault that things escalated since it's one of the most right-wing governments Israel has ever seen - and their lack of competence should and is blamed for the escalation and for allowing such a major attack to happen. Israel's government has a lot to answer after this war, to a lot of people - especially to Israelis.

That is to say, the escalation in violence was in the west bank, not in Gaza. Gaza was a relatively quiet area for months up until the attack (except for disturbenceses on the fence which Israel stupidly disregarded)

obviously when people say cease fire they mean a real one

Then by that standard there have been 0 cease fires in Gaza since Hamas took over. Rockets are fired from Gaza at least once a year - is that peace in your eyes? Calling for it now after all those years is just ridiculous. Maybe a pause for humanitarian aid, but ceasefire? Basically giving Gaza back to Hamas? What sane Israeli would live in one of the slaughtered Kibutz while Hamas is still in power?

A failure. That doesn't justify genocide of people

War != Genocide. They both have massive civilian deaths - but it's an important distinction. The 7/10 attack does indeed justify entering a war - where sadly lots of civilians are killed. Poor Gazans have both Israel and Hamas to blame for allowing this war to happen.

a cease fire means no more dead anyone

On 6/10 there was a cease fire - that didn't prevent Israelis from being slaughtered. Hamas showed no* indication of stopping their massacares. In fact, they did the opposite - they only talk about how glad they are with the massacare and how they intend to do that again.

Israel is perfectly capable of defending itself without comitting genocide

Then what was the 7/10 attack? Even with oppressing the region they can't defend against such terror acts without their air force.

Dude when have I equated all Palestinians to Hamas exactly?? I said that war is horrible and that innocents die in it, and that's how it always has been. That doesn't equate to me saying all Palestinians are Hamas. Heck, I think Palestinians are the biggest victims of Hamas, being the main reason for thousands of deaths on innocent Palestinians.

And taking the side of no civilian casualty is just a very privileged position you can say only from thousands of kms away - when your life is threatened, some civilian casualty is justified under war. That's what I meant when I said war is horrible, and that's why everyone no matter who you are should try and prevent it always. But saying a side who has pretty rightfully opened a war, and saying they should stop because you're against all civilian lives lost, is just not helpful and not gonna do anything, since it really is just privileged, having not experienced any part of the conflict yourself. Saying "from my point of view it's bad so don't do it" while not looking at it from the point of view of the other party is really just not helpful in understanding or doing anything.

And about the Apartheid, my bad, I talked about Gaza, not the West bank, where the Israelis are actually entering the region and oppressing Palestinians. I still don't compare it to south africa where it was oppression of your own citizens, but it's still really horrible and the right wing government of Israel needs to fall. For that I'll protest all day.

But again, I really see the people of Gaza as prisoners not of Israel, but Hamas. Israel willingly just fell back from the region in 2005, and from then onwards Palestinian civilians were truly doomed by Hamas (Israel literally physically just walked away) to a constant state of war.

You keep repeating over and over hoping for your point to be true, while it's just not. Keep crying and keep turning a blind eye to the fact that there are 2 sides here who both have valid goals and disregard one of them just because they're bigger and pretty much achieved their goal is bullshit or straight up racism.

History is and forever was on the side of the bigger powers, so no. Looks like history would not be on the side of terrorists.

That's the wrong question. The right question is if the mexican cartels started launching rockets and slaughtering the U.S.bordering Mexico - then what do you think would happen?

Oh so having thousands of armed forces destroying borders in a calculated coordinated attack including drones and rockets is not an army?

Read about Hamas. Learn that they're a small army, coordinated and with levels of commands, platoons, and units.

Stop imagining Israel as being terrorists targeting civilians - they're an army targeting terrorists who target civilians, and who're hiding behind civilians for safety.

Classifying Israel as Apartheid is valid if and only if Israel and Palestinians in the west bank define themselves as Israelis and treat themselves as part of the Israeli national. Surprise surprise - they don't. Neither. Israel classifies Palestinians as basically foreigners, hence no citizen right. And Palestinians don't try to push against it because all they want is a country of their own. Now, providing a Palestinian state is a whole subject in itself, but basically it's hard. And not enough foreign power is used to make it happen - that's the real disservice done to the Palestinians. They never ever talked about Israel accepting them to Israeli society, and no one expects that of them. They're literal foreigners to Israel, with work permits. Of course they won't have a government vote.

Another point was the jewish nature of Israel and how it discriminates - and that's just true. There's indeed a case to be made of Israel needing to be some part jewish, but Israel politics and laws are fucked up, especially regarding settlements. Let's hope they get their shit together and have a working government who actually does good.

And lastly, Gazans moving south. Does anybody in this world remember what war's like? Does anybody remember how many German civilian homes were bombed by the brits in WW2? Does anyone remember the civilian casualties Germany suffered?

War is war. And war is horrible. But expecting a country who just had its worst attack on its land ever to not fight the ones responsible, is extremely privileged by the world. Any state encountering such a big threat on civilian lives would do everything to destroy that threat. And that's what they're doing. The war won't end when all Gazans are dead - it'll end when Hamas has 0 armed terrorists, and 0 threatening capabilities. And that's a goal no one can criticize Israel for pursuing. (Obviously you can criticize their methods - but relative to all recent conflicts - they really are avoiding civilian lives as much as possible considering their enemy.)