• paf0@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      One side fought for them. Or, at the very least, freed them when they won.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        What?

        The war wasn’t fought to stop genocide of any group, it was because Germany and their allies kept invading and attacking other countries.

        This is what I’m complaining about.

        People learn a feel good version of why WW2 happened in school and run with it. But it’s not really that accurate, it’s just what we tell kids in school.

        • aidan@lemmy.worldM
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          5 months ago

          Eh, FDR and other US politicians wanted to enter the war for various reasons, including the oppression of Jews, the attack on Pearl Harbor was a convenient spark for them. (Not saying they plotted it or anything, just they desired to join the war before that, and it gave them a reason to convince the more (largely) pacifism minded public

          • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            Eh, FDR and other US politicians wanted to enter the war for various reasons, including the oppression of Jews

            And some wanted to join the Axis for the same reasons…

            Not just their treatment of Jewish people, but all the groups.

            The nazis inspiration for their treatment of targeted demographics was literally American treatment of slaves and indigenous peoples after all.

            America didn’t join WW2 cause we wanted to wear a cape, the sole reason was Pearl Harbor.

            • aidan@lemmy.worldM
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              5 months ago

              to quote an old reddit comment:

              There is no doubt that the US was going to enter the war before Pearl Harbor. Not only was American aid to the Allies massive (and increasing month by month), but the U.S. was already effectively at war with Germany - by mid-1941 American ships were escorting British convoys with orders to shoot German ships/aircraft on sight. There’s a reason Hitler declared war on the US when he had no obligation to. Germany and the US were already in direct conflict.

              More to the point, collaborative war planning had been going on long before Pearl Harbor. [The ABC-1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–British_Staff_Conference_(ABC–1\)) Conference for example outlined the broad strokes of Allied strategy for the rest of the war.

              There is no reasonable scenario where the US would not have entered the war.

              • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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                5 months ago

                Yes, there were plans for if we joined before we joined.

                Like, that’s what a functional government does, plan things in case they happen.

                Only planning for things you know will happen is absolute insanity.

                https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/great-debate

                While it did cross into the majority of Americans (68%) thinking we should join the Allies, it was due to the belief Germany wouldn’t stop with Europe.

                Interventionists believed the United States did have good reasons to get involved in World War II, particularly in Europe. The democracies of Western Europe, they argued, were a critical line of defense against Hitler’s fast-growing strength. If no European power remained as a check against Nazi Germany, the United States could become isolated in a world where the seas and a significant amount of territory and resources were controlled by a single powerful dictator. It would be, as President Franklin Delano Roosevelt put it, like “living at the point of a gun,” and the buffer provided by the Pacific and Atlantic would be useless.

                Pearl Harbor settled the debate on if America would be left alone.

                It wasn’t for “various reasons”.

                • aidan@lemmy.worldM
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                  5 months ago

                  … Yes for average Americans, yes. Again, I’m talking about FDR and other political leaders

                • aidan@lemmy.worldM
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                  5 months ago

                  … Yes for average Americans, yes. Again, I’m talking about FDR and other political leaders

                  • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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                    5 months ago

                    I didn’t expect you to read the link, that’s why I quoted part of it…

                    But I at least hoped you’d read that

                    If you refuse to read, there’s no point in trying to help you understand anything.

      • tootoughtoremember@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Probably easier to stick with “at the very least, freed them”.

        Pearl Harbor was the rallying cry that brought America together (mostly) to fight the Axis powers. Prior to that, isolationist (and Anti-Semitic) groups such as the America First Committee were growing in popularity. To say America was fighting for the Jews in WW2 may be technically correct based on who was responsible for the Holocaust, but it was more the byproduct of who America’s enemies were at the time, rather than being a primary motivator. Coming in as the savior to a population being persecuted is rarely the real reason wars are fought.

      • Jake Farm@sopuli.xyz
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        5 months ago

        To get them out of europe. Anti-semitism was not a purely german thing, they were just the first to resort to genocide.

        • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Yes…

          I’m sorry, what are you confused about?

          Jewish people made up about half the victims, and was the only demographic who then got their own country given to them after it was stolen from the indengious population.

          • Jake Farm@sopuli.xyz
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            5 months ago

            The concept of there being an “indigenous population” on a land that humanity has occupied and fought over for 10000 years is laughable. And stolen? They lost a world war.

            • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              The concept of there being an “indigenous population” on a land that humanity has occupied and fought over for 10000 years is laughable

              Hold up…

              You don’t think Africa has any indigenous populations?

              You think a random collection of Europeans can say they deserve that land and take it?

              Like, that’s apartheid South Africa mate… Even modern South Africa doesn’t defend that anymore, which is why they’re fighting Israel in the courts today.

              And stolen? They lost a world war.

              What?

              Are you saying that you think the native population of Israel fought with the Nazis?

              Who told you that?

              I don’t think you’re intentionally spreading misinformation, but that’s what you’re doing even if you somehow believe it

              • Jake Farm@sopuli.xyz
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                5 months ago

                Not only are you unaware of the Ottoman Empire and its role in the World War 1 but you also forget that said land has been controlled by almost a dozen different empires several of which wipe out the previous inhabitants and installed their own.

                • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  They didn’t just wipe out the people who lived there and move in new people…

                  Large scale immigration didn’t start happening till ethe mid 1800s when ethically European and Jewish people started immigrating enmass.

                  Partly because the Ottoman empire was friendly to ethnic and religious minorities.

                  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Jerusalem

                  When Rome first took it over, yeah, lots of people (Jewish and otherwise) were killed. But they werent just Jewish, they were also descended ethnically from people who had lived there for centuries.

                  Converting to a religion doesn’t magically change your ethnicity…

                  But that’s the only way what you’re saying makes any sense.

          • StaySquared@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            Side note: Germans and German speaking people were slaughtered. The story tellers forgot to tell us about that. Also we might have been misled with a lot of those images presented as Jewish victims.