• original_ish_name@lemm.ee
      0·
      1 year ago

      YES, someone says it. I'm so tired of people bringing up laws when I'm arguing over morals. Let morals change your laws, not the other way around

          • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
            1·
            1 year ago

            It's just somewhat surprising to me to see this sentiment so highly upvoted on a discussion board that I typically associate with a younger, perhaps more atheist crowd. "Let morals change our laws" is an argument my boomer, Trumper, anti-lgbt parents make. No thanks.

            "Morality" is highly subjective. Not only does every person have their own unique set of morals, most people probably wouldn't even share the same definition for "morality". As I see it, it seems too many of our problems are directly attributable to people who believe their own morals are more important than the laws that apply to them.

            I would use the word "ethics" instead. Because even though there are many sets of ethics out there, they are usually more well defined and have reasoning behind them. Their justification can't end with "because a book told me so".

            Maybe it's just a tomato/tomato situation, but I think the distinction is important. Obviously, I agree that laws exist to be a reflection of certain "values" a society holds, but at the end of the day, the law is the only thing that is well defined (or is intended to be).

            So when discussing something like the title of this post, we could talk all day about what we personally believe the answer is, but the legality really is the only objective answer here.

            • FierroGamer@sh.itjust.works
              0·
              1 year ago

              So when discussing something like the title of this post, we could talk all day about what we personally believe the answer is, but the legality really is the only objective answer here.

              I agree, we can enjoy a long insightful conversation if we talk about morals… Why do you sound like that shouldn't be the default?

              Edit: wait, how in the duck do you expect a single monolithic legal answer in a question that did not provide a legal jurisdiction?

              • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
                1·
                1 year ago

                I never said I expect only one response to OP, this is an asklemmy thread after all, there is no "correct" answer 😀. It is interesting to hear about both the legislation and the personal beliefs amongst everyone here from all over the world, and I welcome that discussion.

                But my response was specifically directed at the person who said, "I’m so tired of people bringing up laws", when laws are really the only objective answer here to be had. I'm fine with everyone sharing their personal beliefs, that leads to interesting discussion, but in general I disagree with the sentiment of "let morals change your laws". Your own morality the thing you should be most critical of when it comes to changing laws. We should have a discussion to find an ethical basis we can agree on as a society, and use that to drive change to our laws. But we should strive to remove our personal morality from the equation as much as possible.

  • socsa@lemmy.ml
    1·
    1 year ago

    Yes, this gets covered in basic mandatory reporting training. The issue with intoxication is generally the power asymmetry. If there is no asymmetry, there's less of a problem. It isn't a hard and fast rule though. If someone says or implies they don't want to fuck when sober, and you both get drunk and fuck, that's probably not great. Likewise, someone taking advantage of a body mass asymmetry to remain relatively more sober while consuming the same amount of alcohol is definitely still rape.

    Basically, if only one person is drunk, there is a strong presumption of assault. If both people are drunk, there is no such presumption, and you'd generally defer to the nature of their relationship outsode of the drinking. So two complete strangers getting sloshed and fucking is typically safe. Two otherwise platonic friends doing the same thing is more of a grey area and you better be sure you are not misreading the situation. You getting drunk with a friend in the hopes they will make a poor decision they wouldn't make while sober is rape.